So a few days ago, the Internet blew up with rumors about Christopher Nolan producing a Justice League movie possibly being directed by Zack Snyder, with a possible return of Christian Bale as Batman. After trying to contain my excitement, failing, and setting my Twitter feed all abuzz, I started thinking about how awesome such a Justice League movie would be. Couple that with the recent reports pouring in about how fan-damn-tastic Man Of Steel is looking, the Justice League movie could be better than the Avengers.
Now, I love The Avengers as much as the next Whedonian, and I am over the moon now that Joss Whedon’s geek cred has finally been solidified for the masses. Vindication comes by very rarely in life. And this list is in no way taking anything away from the super success of The Avengers, both commercially and critically. But I’m just the kind of guy that prefers solid substance over wham-bam-thank-you-ma’m type of action stories. For instance, I liked The Incredible Hulk over Iron Man.
Following both Marvel & DC comics for years, I’ve always noticed that DC stories deal with more symbolic concepts with deeper meaning. For example, Batman’s struggle with his own internal code of ethics when faced with Joker’s willingness to kill in The Dark Knight, versus the physical & emotional struggle of our heroes dealing with a global scale alien invasion from another realm in front of their eyes. Both have their dramatic merits in their individual worlds, but are distinctly different in their respective contexts.
So hear me out before you reach into the attic for your angry mob pitchforks. I provide 5 very well thought out, and not at all rambling reasons as to why I think a Justice League movie will be better than The Avengers…
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59 Comments
This article is just terrible. Your points about jla being more profitable (aside from being laughable) have not a damn thing to do with the quality of the film, which was supposed to be the focus here. No one can relate to a millionaire in a metal suit, yet we can all easily relate to a millionaire in pointy bat ears and a flying urban assault vehicle, sure. Furthermore, brand recognition doesn’t necessarily translate to box office nor critical success. Star trek was an established franchise with leagues of devoted fans, while no one had ever heard of Luke, Vader, or a galaxy far, far away. Did this lead to star trek being a bigger hit than star wars? Or a better film in general. I love the justice league, and I hope the movie turns out well in all respects, but this article is just stupid and pointless. You have failed to make your point, or even to find your own point.
Thanks for being the first to comment on my first Article on this site. That might be the reason for the terrible-ness of this article, my first time naivety. But I still appreciate your response.
First of all, I never mentioned more profits = better quality, nor did I specify what I meant by ‘better than’, so not sure how you deciphered the ‘focus’ of the article. I also point out that this is an arbitrary list based on personal opinion, and that there could be hundreds or other reasons for a JLA film to go either way.
The super hero aspects of both Iron Man & Batman require a stretch of imagination. But going through their histories, find me one thing about Tony Stark’s background before the suit, that an everyday person can relate to, that’s relevant to the story of Iron Man. The reasons of him becoming Iron Man, aren’t something people can relate to, because most aren’t in the position of Tony Stark. That’s not a comment on whose motivation is better, it’s a simple fact, without commenting on the quality of either origin story.
My point of a Larger Demographic was referring more to the non-comic book audience who will walk into a movie, without knowing everything about the story, source material, cast, etc. You have to agree, that a non comic book audience recognizes Batman & Superman more so than Iron Man pre The Avengers movie.
My points were laid out without ever stating that they were written in stone. You seem to have taken it as such. However, I still appreciate the feedback.
Iron Man is a witty, chauvinistic alcoholic.. are you telling me people can’t relate to that?
I call BS.
First of all, an opionion of what’s better is subjective, but the definition of “better” is not — a movie is better if it’s more entertaining, has a more interesting storyline, better acting, etc. The list of criteria is long but it’s a pretty objective system, otherwise there wouldn’t be movie ratings. Now that that’s clarified…
You did not list any reasons why the JLA movie would be better than Avengers. You listed several reasons why more people (especially those outside of the target audience) would recognize the characters, but you even shot yourself in the foot by saying that Marvel “had to” make individual movies — which were mostly huge hits — about the characters in the years leading up to the Avengers movie.. Who’s better known today, Wonder Woman or Thor? Green Hornet or Captain America? Hulk or Flash?
Even if we go with your first point and JLA has more recognition factor, and we pretend that that’s how the quality of a movie is measured, what exactly is it about Superman, Green Hornet, Flash, or Wonder Woman that makes them so easy to relate to? I’m as much like Tony Stark as I am like Bruce Wayne. Or Bruce Banner, or Thor, or Clark Kent.
Realism? Seriously? An almost invincible alien who can get killed if he’s close to rocks from his home planet, a guy with a magic ring that can create anything he thinks of, a chick with a lasso that… never mind.
Anyway the reason I wrote this response is because your article is in the first 5 hits on google for the justice league movie and I do not think it deserves that spot, although I do approve of the Joss Whedon credit. =)
While I agree their is much potential for a great movie. The biggest part of your argument is brand recognition. While That mabey true for DC’s top three (Batman, Superman, Wonder Woman), Marvel blew that completly out of the water with the movie.
The other big hole is, while DC has had solid success in a range of mediums (comics, T.V., animated movies) Big budget live action movies have been their kryptonite. Marvel can claim success with multiple characters. In the last 20 years, excluding Batman, DC hasn’t had a hit.
I agree that Marvel kicked ass with everything they started with their Cinematic Universe. The Avengers and everyone involved are now household names in a few short years. My point was more comparing their recognition prior to The Avengers movie, or even prior to the release of Iron Man. That particular point was more looking at the recognition level of the characters and the both the teams, before either film is released. Did the every day non-comic fan know the origins of Tony Stark before Iron Man? That’s all.
I completely agree, Big Budget films have always eluded DC & Warner Bros, and Marvel destroys their track record with feature length movies, with a few minor exceptions. But I guess I’m optimistic and holding out hope that DC will learn from The Avengers model, either by embracing it or going the other way. There’s no reason DC & Warner Bros. can’t learn and improve on their terrible past.
Iron Man is a witty, chauvinistic alcoholic.. are you telling me people can’t relate to that?
Shah Shahid you are right about the members of Avengers not being household names prior to the success of the movie. but that is no longer important in a discussion about who will sell more at the box office being that they ARE JUST AS POPULAR NOW. by the time 2015 comes around the winner could possibly be determined by who is more popular.
I don’t disagree with you tys. My comparison was more based on the recognition of each team to the everyday public prior to release. Similarly how members of the Avengers weren’t that well known, members of the JLA are. My conclusion was based on that, nothing more.
Thanks for the comment.
As much as I love the JL and the DC universe in general, I just don’t think their characters (except for Batman and Superman…kinda) translate onto the big screen as well as Marvel’s.
That was the same concern they had with some of The Avengers characters. Namely Thor. But The Avengers really opened the door and showed us that it is possible. Which is the whole reason why a JLA movie is even being discussed. So it might very well be possible, depending on who’s handling it.
Thanks for the comment.
I have to take issue with your points – although some more that others
5) The demographics ARE NOT in play anymore. They were when Donner’s Superman and Burtons Batman came out. That was when such movies were novel. But it is now different. Take Superman Returns. That did not do as well as Iron Man despite Superman being the more widely known. In the same vein a movie like Avatar can make over $1 billion introducing completely new characters.
4) Television shows have not really made or broken any franchise. There has been an Incredible Hulk television show as well as Spiderman in the 80’s. In addition both brands have had their share of animated films and early movie successes (Raimi’s Spiderman and Burton’s Batman) as well as bombs (Story’s Fantastic Four and Pitof’s Catwoman). I don’t think it has created an advantage for either.
3) Your third point is the one I disagree with the most. Could the DC Universe do a Justice League movie without the introduction of the characters and be successful…yes. But it won’t be as successful as the Avengers and having the introduction of characters with the subsequent Justice League supported by solo movies makes it all the more epic. I find it rather difficult to believe that if DC is unable to pull off solo movies that they would be able to put together a great ensemble film.
2) This is a point I sort of agree with you but in a nuanced way. I don’t agree that the Avengers lack deeper themes, I think that they have those same themes but I do agree they have not been fleshed out. The odd thing is that the criticism of DC has been that their characters are so powerful that they are far removed from the human experience, yet the success of the Dark Knight trilogy and the potential success of the Man of Steel lies in the fact that it is made in a grounded way. The Avengers was far more “comic’ book like than the Dark Knight and presumably the Man of Steel.
1) Your last point I also somewhat agree with in that the DC characters individually were created when there were not that many heroes in comics. So they represent the most idealized set of attributes that people often want. For example, Superman being indestructible (something every person would want) deals with issues of people around him dying or potentially dying. I don’t think Spiderman has that same issue or Captain America (although you might say Thor but he does not live on earth). All that to say that DC heroes have better represented what we think of as perfect human attributes and their stories show us why there is really no such thing – Superman has trouble fitting into an imperfect world/Batman who values justice and does not kill must turn to almost criminal means to get justice/Wonder Woman who epitomizes the a strong successful and smart woman is still defined by her gender.
I think the Justice League could be the greatest epic saga ever put to film. But only if they: 1) continue to ground it in realism and avoid cartoonish elements (such as in Green Lantern); 2) build on solo films that delve into the internal struggles of the heroes; 3) establish formidable rogues and villains that challenge our heroes (such as with Bane in The Dark Knight Rises); and 4) reimagine the DC universe continuity and so that the characters flow seamlessly together. I have seen it done. A friend of mine has reimagined the DC Universe in a brilliant way and it does away with plot holes and inconsistencies that plague the DC brand.
Hey Patrick, I really appreciate the very well thought out response. And I actually don’t disagree with most of your points too much.
5) I disagree that they are not in play anymore. Demographics are definitely taken into account for marketing and branding a movie to a certain audience. However, I’l agree that might not be the case for DC or Warner Bros., but it is present. I agree with you that they might not make a difference for a JLA movie, but they very well might. Again, I was discussing more about the non comic book fan. Whilst the more knowledgeable of us watch all trailers, follow all the press, etc of our favourite movies, there are still a large crowd who walk into a movie by watching 1 trailer, or through word of mouth, etc. And ultimately, for any movie or industry to survive, it’s being able to cater to consumers / audiences that go beyond their niche market of just fanboys / cinephiles. So in those cases, demographic definitely plays a part, even if it’s a small part.
4) I remember there first X-Files movie getting poor reception due to the fact that it was released while the Series was active, causing confusion amongst audiences. Wasn’t there similar reports with Superman Returns being released while Smallville was on? I could be remembering wrong. And not that those are the sole reasons for the movies being unsuccessful or successful. Again, I agree that it might not make or break a franchise, but it does have some involvement in the bigger picture.
3) This point would be more doing something different for the sake of doing something different. I don’t necessarily disagree with you. But I doubt that Warner Bros. will follow a model EXACTLY like Marvel’s for the films. Also, one fact in my arguing that point was: Imagine if the JLA movie plans were in full swing, with Green Lantern being the first movie of Phase 1. Imagine where that would have left the JLA movie plans right now. As R. McQueen said earlier, DC’s feature length movie track record isn’t great. So it makes sense for them to not risk more flops with solo films and go for it all in one go.
2) At least we agree on something. You said it better, that The Avengers may have deeper themes, but they haven’t been explored further.
1) Great expansion on what I was trying to say. You’ve said it a lot better!
I don’t disagree with your conclusion. I think you’ve hit all the nails right on the head. With DC’s usual thematic and deeper meaning story lines, (Identity Crisis) for example, I think JLA movie could be told amazingly, if done well. Thanks for the feedback Patrick.
Are you kidding me? DC characters are more relatable that Marvel? Ok lets look at Batman, and Iron Man. Both are rich. IF they weren’t there would be no super hero. Batman’s catalyst is the death of his parents. Tony’s is that because of his fathers legacy he has blood on his hands. He doesn’t want to become his father, who can’t relate to that? 2nd Superman and Captain America. They are both the symbols of the team. Superman was an adopted ALIEN. Now sure many people can relate to being adopted so yes he is relatable. Captain America was the underdog, always being picked on because he wasn’t like everyone else. Are you telling me thats not relatable? 3rd the Mytical. Wonder woman and Thor are both from mythology. She is fighting in a mans world and is very relatable for women. Thor on the other hand is trying to deal with a sibling. He has love for his brother but can’t believe the person he has become. He is also trying to understand a new world, (i.e. when you move) SO is Thor Not relatable?? Black Widow, has blood in her ledger and is trying to wipe it out. Who doesn’t have something in their past that they wish they could make up for? I’m pretty sure everyone can relate to that.
SO before you say that the Avengers just aren’t relatable, dig a little bit deeper below the surface and find the ACTUAL motivation for the characters, because it certainly isn’t a giant red and gold suit of armour.
Hey Jamie, I get where you’re coming from. My comparison of both groups of characters in terms of being relatable was based on what’s already been shown of The Avengers’ characters from the movies, and what could possible be shown of the JLA characters in their possible movie.
1. Iron Man’s not wanting to become his father wasn’t really highlighted too much in the movies.
2. You’re right that Captain America is probably the most relatable in the group given how his backstory was built up in the movie.
3. The sibling rivalry set up in Thor actually worked more for Loki than for Thor. Loki, for a villain was VERY relatable and even came off sympathetic in certain scenes.
4. Right again about Black Widow. I was going more by the main members of The Avengers who were featured in their own solo films. But you’re right, Black Widow and Hawkeye seem to have a rich history that could be explored further.
Again, my conclusion of them being not relatable, was based on what’s already been shown in the movies. The JLA members are more rooted in universal emotions, which almost always plays a part in their super heroism, especially in a team dynamic. Not just a back story put into the movie version of the character to tell a better story.
I get what you’re saying and I appreciate the comment.
Number 3 is the most ludicrous braindead argument Ive been hearing about JL ever since the Avengers came out, absolutley mental, releasing any ensemble film like this without solo buildup movies is absolutely insane and just begging for failure, it also spits in the face of general organization, chronology and possible DVD collection sales, when the DVD collection comes out, I think it would sell much better if Batman Begins, Dark Knight, Green Lantern, Dark Knight Rises, Man of Steel and Justice League being in it would bode much better for large apeal than simply Green Lantern Man Of Steel and Justice League dont you? DVD sales are important to studios trust me, for long term appeal, you need good build up and chronology, if WB takes your advice, this movie will be lame and anti climactic beyond belief, introducing up to 4 or 5 new superhero origins in one movie? Insane man, just insane.
Hey Vic. Well it’s not really ‘my advise’. From everything I’ve heard thus far, that is the model WB may be following. Henry Cavill from Man Of Steel may be the only actor with a solo film before the JLA movie. Apparently the success of Man Of Steel will ultimately decide the fate of the JLA movie.
http://whatculture.com/film/no-justice-league-movie-if-man-of-steel-isnt-a-box-office-success.php
Also, given their competitive-ness, I doubt WB & DC will follow the exact same model that Marvel did. And I doubt they wanna risk bringing other heroes in solo films and have them flop like Green Lantern, pushing the possibility of a JLA movie even further into darkness.
Thanks for the comment!
I see the Avengers-fanboys have come out to play
Why not? The more the merrier I say!
I like what you tryed to accomplish here much more than what you actually accomplished. Your attempt to sell the Avengers short is utter FAIL. Not marketable…? Apparently you were not around last Halloween with all the Thor hammers, Captain’s shields, and Ironman masks.
At the end of the day, you made one GREAT point. Unlike Marvel, DC is made for TV…. not sure if that is a good thing or not. Take any unknown actor, put him in costume, and BAM! You have a built in storyline from 50 years ago.
DC’s weakness will be current technolgy. Marvel took their charactors and found a way to build them up using today’s graphics. Bottome line, while DC has their humanistic values, Marvel has fantasy and “epicness” that in the 70′s, 80′s, and even 90′s (especially on TV) could not live up to. Timing was everything for Stan Lee and Marvel. DC had to go “dark” for Batman to be a success; Superman had to be “darkened” as well. Good luck doing the same with Wonderwoman and Aquaman.
After numerous boxoffice fails… good luck DC in trying to triumph over the Avengers. You may just want to stick with TV!
Hey DavH, I think you failed to understand my points. I’ll clarify. I think i’ve stated a few times that I loved The Avengers and wasn’t attempting to undercut the film’s success of impact.
And I didn’t say The Avengers aren’t marketable. Prior to the solo films and the movie, not many knew about the characters beyond comics fans. Last Halloween would be after Thor, Captain America and Iron Man movies were released right? So following that logic, kids have been wearing Superman & Batman costumes for decades. So the JLA should be more marketable right? That’s all I was saying.
I don’t think technology plays a part in it at all, given it’s always the same effects companies that do the work for majority of movies in Hollywood these days. But you’re right, Marvel definitely has an ‘epicness’ that works for them. Due to DC characters being too ‘humanistic’ they must be darkened and brought into reality for it to work.
I don’t think DC is ‘made for TV’, I just think they’ve found more success with their kind of TV shows given the audience they have with their channel as well. So they shows are already made with that audience in mind. Smallville would have been a very different show if it aired on NBC or Fox.
Thanks for the comment… I guess we’ll have to wait and see how ‘dark’ Man of Steel really is.
Sorry, but I cannot support DC until they fully give Superman back his citizenship and apologize to all the WWII era fans.
I want to start off by saying that I believe that there is room enough for both franchises, and that I hope that Justice League is terrific. How awesome would that be? But it doesn’t look good. Before I get into that, I want to address a couple of your points. 5: Profit doesn’t mean a good movie. Hangover II, anyone? A bigger demographic doesn’t mean much. If the movie doesn’t deliver, it won’t perform at the box office. Superman Returns vs Iron Man. Prior to the film, Iron Man was a 2nd tier character that no one in the mainstream had heard of. 4: TV turnover? Smallville was a 10 season long cocktease that left a lot of viewers pissed off. We NEVER got to see Tom Welling as Superman, just some CGI shots, and some closeups of Tom’s face. Also, you mention the admittedly great DC animated stuff, but left out the current Avengers: Earth’s Mightiest Heroes cartoon.
In my opinion, the biggest hurdle that DC faces is that they just didn’t have a plan, and even now, they don’t seem to have one. DC has stated that they’re GOING to make a Justice League movie, but also that they want to see how Man of Steel performs before going ahead with anything else. When it was announced that Iron Man was just the first step in a multi-year, multi-part operation leading to an Avengers movie, DC should have started getting their ducks in a row. They didn’t, and it shows. Green Lantern was a bad standalone film that failed to lay any groundwork for a larger universe. The whole Batman situation is just a massive headache. Rebooting Batman is a slap in the face to the wonderful world that Nolan just finished, not to mention the fact that it will confuse mainstream audiences that just saw Batman retire. Also, too soon for a reboot. Comic fans are used to multiverses. We can accept that Nolan Batman has nothing to do with whatever is going to come up in Justice League.
A Justice League movie will undoubtedly make a ton of money. Will it be better than The Avengers?
Dan, I agree with you as well. I feel both can survive together. Regarding your response to my points:
I never mentioned profits = good movie. My use of the word ‘better’ in this article was broad indicating better profits, better storytelling, better popularity, etc. Which is why my reasons cover a variety of things beyond just story or commercial appeal. The rest I’ve expanded above in others’ comments, so won’t repeat here. Marvel has some great animated shows, but similar to how they have more successes in live action films, DC has more with Animated films.
I completely agree with your observation. DC doesn’t seem to have a plan. What boggles me is how a comics publisher known for massive Comic ‘events’ that see multiple creative teams coordinating together to tell a larger story spread over months… can’t transfer that same coordination to their film properties. Marvel did it brilliantly, I would expect DC to do the same, if not better.
Only time will tell whose approach is better and which movie is ultimately ‘better’.
Thanks for the insight Dan.
The Incredible Hulk has a better story than Iron Man… whaaa?
Maybe ‘better’ was the wrong word. I personally liked it more than Iron Man. I thought it had more… soul?
Thanks for the comment Barloq.
to each their own, you state your points validly enough but i just disagree, since some of these points have no real way of basing in fact, superman for example is a hard sell to be considered “deeper” than any marvel characters because he’s a boring cardboard cutout that has had very little change in the 70+ years since his inception….he’s a boy scout, and very few of us can relate to that in this day & age…i’m adopted myself, but i’ve never felt that superman spoke for me or anyone who is also adopted, it’s an issue that is usually skirted over or generally pushed aside…characters are only as good as their writers and dc has had a good amount of great writers, but interference from editorial has kept them from truly spreading their wings aside from a good run in the 80s….to each their own but i personally see that while jla will be successful, it will most certainly not be as successful as the avengers.
Hey jonb227, I appreciate the compliment. And while I get where you are coming from, I slightly disagree. Superman does have boring qualities, but like you said, it comes down to the creative teams behind him. There are many stories that explore never before thought about concepts when it comes to Superman. EARTH ONE & BIRTHRIGHT gave us some cool insights and even a proposed Mark Millar Trilogy was going to deal with some never before tackled concepts. But again, like you said, it depends on who’s behind it. The character itself is layered and complex, but mainstream perception is only that he’s an invincible flying goody goody.
Thanks for sharing about your adoption. Of course just having the one character trait isn’t enough to make a character relatable, but it’s an arc. I didn’t mean to say that being adopted alone, makes Superman the brand ambassador of all adoptions, but that it’s an character trait into his humanity.
Thanks for the comment.
None of this matters until WB can prove they can make a cape flick that isn’t batman.
They’ve tried and failed. But hopefully they get their shit together and do better for a possible JLA movie.
Here’s hoping…
Holy crap, I can’t believe someone tried to make te case that DC characters are more relatable than Marvel’s. Not that I disagree, but still… you don’t see that every day.
A point that was also worth mentioning are the character dynamics. You have the big trinity, Supes, Bats and WW, who are hugely dissimilar from each other. Superman is all about hope, Batman’s about fear, and WW has no aversion to killing when she has to, something that constitutes a total dealbreaker for the other two.
You also have Flash and Green Lantern’s friendship, which could be the stuff for a major onscreen bromance, and you could explore some cool superhero politics with Aquaman’s Atlantis and WW’s Themyscira. Just cool stuff all around. Just don’t make it another “Aliens invade, let’s go fight ‘em”, because if they do, that’s when they instantly lose whatever advantage they may have to the Avengers.
Thanks Mario. I might not have made a good enough case, but I’m not unhappy with it.
Awesome points of your own. Your last point was really what I based a lot of my possible ‘where can the story go’ points. Take a look at IDENTITY CRISIS. The conflict in that story was something very human and small in comparison to the world being threatened. Yet, it shook up the status quo of all the DC Characters. Showed us personal relationships of the heroes, their dynamics together, more so than when they’re fighting a giant monster.
So Those elements can easily be used to give us a JLA movie where we meet the characters during a crisis close to home, and combine it with a larger more universal threat. After Thanos, everyone’s assuming Darkseid as the villain for a JLA movie, and I think that would be the wrong way to go.
Thanks for the comment Mario.
I’m trying to rack my brains thinking about who/what they’re going to fight. Warner can’t use Darkseid (one of the better large-scale DC villains) because he’s too similar in appearance to Thanos, the announced bad guy in Avengers 2, and briefly glimpsed in A1. Audiences won’t know that Darkseid is actually the older character, and it would look like DC/Warner is copying Marvel.
Hey Dan. I agree completely! No Darkseid please!
Personally, I would like to see a more internal threat in a JLA movie. Elements from the IDENTITY CRISIS storyline, with a WATCHMEN-like approach to it to introduce the characters, minus the slow-ness, could work.
Actually, none of these reasons indicate why Justice League would be better. Demographics? Really?
Nolan can make a good Batman film, but I’d argue that his Batman would not be a good fit with aliens and people from Atlantis.
And I think you may want to re-think #4 and #5: relatable characters and then everyone gets along? Anyone watching the film will relate much more to a group dynamic wherein not everyone sees eye-to-eye. Or perhaps you’re thinking of the Superfriends….
Yes, Crabbieappleton, really. Demographics might not factor into how you and I watch a movie, but definitely matters to the people marketing it and selling it.
I tend to agree with you about Nolan’s Batman fitting into a world with Aquaman. However, Man Of Steel will be a very good indication of, if the reality set up by Nolan, can function in a world with a super powered Alien.
Not necessarily everyone gets along, but not everyone butting heads constantly either. There’s enough varying personalities in the JLA for there to be a bit of both. Like mentioned before, a GL & Flash friendship wise-assing the rest of the serious guys. There’s enough Superman / Batman conflicts in comics to cull from. Again, everyone in the JLA choose to work together. They have to explore the reasoning behind that, find similar character strands to tie it in. It can’t be them always fighting. Won’t make sense.
Thanks for the comments.
Nerds.
Justice League will be better because:
Marvel = Sucks
DC = Awesome.
Simple really.
Well you just negated the whole reason for this article didn’t you. Kudos.
Thanks Ben!
Sorry, Hans. Wrong guess. The first live-action Wonder Woman was Cathy Lee Crosby.
Huh, you’re right. Wow, I did not know that. I guess I should’ve said ‘most well known’. :p
Thanks for schooling my ass.
Davh what r u talking about box office fails? U marvel fans have one good movie that did well and u think ur the be al, end all. U seem to forget that it was a DC movie The Dark Knight that had owned the number 3 box office movie spot for 3 yrs! Plus, there are 2! DC movies in the top ten of all movies. When it comes to box office failures marvel is the king!!
Marvel has more failures in live action film, but that’s because they HAVE more live action films. Of course DC has less failures, because there’s not a lotta DC live action movies out there besides the Batman & Superman movies. Which still only count as two properties.
Marvel’s had the most characters culled into live action, with varied box office successes for a LONG time now. DC needs to pull out some good storytelling from their awesome stable of characters to even compete with the number of films Marvel has under their belt.
Thanks for commenting KKF.
Im a fan of both Marvel and DC but DC always seemed to captivate my attention more which i think it would be great to see a JL Movie plus JL worked more as a team than the Avengers did
Hey Jeff, I feel the same way. I’ve always resonated more to DC Characters & stories than Marvel. Both publishers have their pros and cons though.
Thanks for the comment.
jajajaja…. The Marvelnites are mad…. truth hurts
Wow. This site is rife with DC fanboy/nolan-worshipping twerps. Being flat out honest I’m a MARVEL zombie and I couldn’t give a rats @$$ about DC. But to me the MARVEL vs DC rivalry is nothing more than fun and games and excuses to give some ribbing, etc. However to DC fanboys this is really serious!?! I have to admit that I am completely amazed by how much DC fanboys are hurting on the inside because THE AVENGERS b!tch slapped tdkr at the box-office (BO)!!! All over the internet these guys are coming out in droves and it is always blatantly obvious that what is really critically important to them is that the justice league movie beat THE AVENGERS. Even this article which supposedly is about the jl movie being ‘better’ but it’s actually all about beating THE AVENGERS at the box office. You guys need to cut back on the desperacy. Oh and that ridiculous point about dc characters being more relatable than MARVEL characters. This guys head has to be waaaayyy up his @$$. With the exception of Batman, dc characters are severely lacking in any sort of relatability and thus their potential appeal to the GA is really low. More mature themes??!?? What’s also really hilarious is how many of these guys (like the writer of this article) say oh they love both DC and MARVEL, and they loved THE AVENGER, etc., etc, and then amke statements like “Well that’s it for my knee jerk ‘analysis’ of why a Justice League movie will kick The Avengers right in their arc reactor. Most of my reasons are more practical and from the commercial perspective. I’m sure there are a thousand other story, cast and creative reasons why Justice League will be better than The Avengers.” This closing statement doesn’t exactly project objectivity or neutrality; it reeks of a extremely biased dc fanboy desperate to beat MARVEL. Just come out and state what you are. I do. I couldn’t give a damn about DC; if they never make a jl movie I’m never going to care. Once the MCU continues in its success, growth, and expansion, FOX’s X-MEN franchise continues to rebound successfully, and other MARVEL properties at other studios also do well, I’m a happy camper.
The part where you say the Smallville Justice League was brilliant…
Credibility goes_
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Hahahaha!! Thanks Riley.
To be fair, there really was nothing to base their appearance in Smallville. It was a cool attempt that wasn’t animated or campy. So I was just overjoyed by that. Obviously a movie version will kill that teenage cotton candy version.
I’m sure the other posts here said what I’m going to say, but I’ll say it anyway because I feel it’s good to discuss these things.
Your argument basically boils down to DC is better than Marvel, or at least the Justice League is better than the Avengers. However, the problem here is that it’s entirely subjective. The Justice League works together more. There isn’t as much infighting. Okay, but how is that more interesting than the Avengers, who clash and cooperate?
You say that audiences won’t be able to relate to the Avengers as well as the Justice League. I always Marvel’s greatest strength was how its cast of characters were more human. Who can an audience sympathize with more? A boy who watched his parents die in an alleyway, or a guy who realized he made some poor life choices by putting effort into something that eventually hurt people? The last survivor of an alien race or a strong man who needs to learn humility?
The truth is that everything you said about the Justice League you could say about the Avengers.
I don’t really watch superhero movies but I just want to do a shout-out to my good friend Shah for not only writing a great article and offering an opinion (which is not wrong, no ones opinion is), but also congrats on the way you’re handling some of these rude people on here. People disagreeing constructively is great to see, and you are at least standing behind your decisions in the article (which are probably wrong but I don’t know!) Keep up the good work here Shah :)
I can’t roll with you on this man. There’s so much that Marvel did right with The Avengers, from the characters themselves (I’d much rather watch Iron Man and Hulk and Thor as opposed to any 2 characters from DC) to the reality of the characters being a lot more feasible. (Sorry, Hulk and Thor ended up being a lot more believable than Aquaman, Martian Manhunter and Green Lantern any day!)
DC would need a stand alone movie just to get audiences to like/believe some of the more outlandish characters. Marvel succeeded in taking a B-list hero (Iron Man) and making him a great icon that The Avengers rested on. DC only has Batman and will soon have a great Superman (because the “brand recognition” of Superman Returns did nothing for the franchise but lead to greater disappointment.)
a fun article, but nope, you haven’t convinced me. :)
Nice article, Shah! I’m not the largest super hero fan (though, I try to see as many as I can muster), but I think I could really anticipate this one. I like your points, and I hope this is better than The Avengers because I wasn’t a big fan of it. I’ll have to watch that Arrow TV series…
While I always am in the mood for some good comic book/movie analysis, I have to disagree. The main reason is that your views on the themes and appeal of DC vs Marvel characters is outdated. Start from the source. In the last decade or so, DC comics has not compared to the storylines and writing of Marvel. Much of what they are coming out with today is of course based on classic characters, but they are translated excellently before being translated to the big screen. Your article still seems to be grasping for the DC glory days when they weren’t losing writers so often and leaning on weak personal arcs (see the new 52′s Wonder Woman/Superman Romance)
Interesting read. You make good points but I could never really get over the fact that Batman just doesn’t fit in a Superman or Justice League world. I know he has been in countless Superman crossovers and JLA stories but I never really buy into them. It may work in comics and cartoons but it’s a whole other league to pull it off in a movie. Batman deals with extreme psychopaths. Superman deals with aliens. The Nolan universe of Batman abides by that. Maybe Nolan pulled off a Superman story that is more grounded but we can’t really say for sure until we’ve seen it. Snyder may have made a masterpiece with 300 but he has some big letdowns too. Either way it’s going to be much much harder to put a JLA movie in the same universe as the Dark Knight Trilogy. I don’t buy it and honestly I don’t think the WB will be able to pull off a JLA movie as good as The Avengers. Batman, especially Nolan’s Batman, just doesn’t mix with Aliens and Heros with cosmic super powers.
I’m rooting for the WB to pull off a great JLA movie on par with The Avengers but I’m pessimistic about it.
Also, I really doubt Christian Bale would come back as Batman. It would change the meaning of the ending of The Dark Knight Rises. Plus, it would probably mean Christian Bale would have to sign another multi-film contract and I think his time as Batman is done.
Its really sad that people cant state their opinion any more without being ripped to shreds. I agree with Shahid. Avengers (and their team) were obscure before the MCU. Sure people knew Hulk and Cap, but overall no one was checking for them. AFTER the MCU is when kids starting toting Iron Man masks and Thor hammers – Not before. And Im not mad at Marvel. They were sitting on a gold mine for years and finally did something with it. But IMHO Marvel isnt relatable. I nor anyone I know has intense bill paying problems (Spider-Man) they just figure out how to budget. Hulk’s angst nor Tony’s narcissism/alcoholism is anything I can relate too. Marvel just randomly throws traumatic problems into their EXTREMELY fantastical characters and calls that relatability. There’s a HUGE difference between having PROBLEMS and being DRIVEN. Shahid is right. The majority of the JLA came together because they individually thought it was the right thing to do. Marvel characters have to be coerced because they are essentially foot dragging a–holes in many cases. Superman is driven to do whats right. Wonder Woman is driven for justice and equality. Bats is driven by the loss of his family and the crime in his city. And before someone argues Spidey and Bats similar circumanstance, Peter only became Spidey because he was indirectly responsible for his Uncle Bens death. If the burglar would have shot some random dude, Spidey would be a money making side show star as he originally intended. The Waynes were unselfish wealthy people donating to charities and such. So if Bruce would have grown up with his parents still alive, he would have still been fighting poverty and injustice. He just wouldn’t have been psychologically tramatized doing so (i.e. wearing a bat costume and creeping through the shadows and beating crooks down.) DC charactersnare the people we strive to be. Marvels are the ones we become if we let problems get to us.
Sorry to burst your bubbles, but Christian Bale or Christopher Nolan won’t be involved any in a justice league movie. It’s been confirmed that it was a stand alone.
http://www.bleedingcool.com/2013/04/11/justice-league-updates-christopher-nolan-officially-not-involved-man-of-steel-really-might-tie-in/
If you don’t believe in site, go search it your self.
And in short, Marvel is more relatable compared to DC. And about the single movies for Marvel. They all worked in Marvel’s favor, they were all great hits other than the hulk movies. Don’t get me wrong, the hulk movies were good but not great. Definitely better than the green lantern movie. So now there is definitely more anticipation in any Marvel Movie compared to any DC movie that’s coming out. Superman is the first step into a Justice League movie, if they screw that up, the hype for a justice league movie will go down. Regardless, Marvel currently has the upper hand and that’s a fact. DC will have some big trouble to catch up.
I stop reading after “DC characters are more relatable”.
Sure the likes of Iron Man & Thor only recently became ultra mainstream but tell me, how well known was Batman before the Adam West show or Superman before his film serials? Every super hero owes their notoriety to a show or a movie.
DC characters being more well known? Batman & Superman obviously but the rest? No. Sure people may know who Wonder Woman, Flash & Aquaman are but tell me how many people know exactly what they’re about like what their personality is or even their exact origin? You won’t even find anyone who takes them seriously let alone name more than 3 of their rogues gallery or name a memorable story on par with Knightfall or Extremus. Plus thanks to the movies there’s far more hype behind Iron Man, Thor & Cap than there ever was for WW or Flash.
A Justice League movie will fail, they don’t have the foresight or dedication that Marvel does with their movies. If they can’t get a hero right in their own movie, what makes you think they’ll do any better in an ensemble movie where they have to compete for screen time?