In an escapade which is likely to go the same way as a terribly uncomfortable and sexually tense evening of Eurovision in which the male host says poorly written jokes in a language no-one can understand and the female host stands there blankly in a dress, her tightly screwed face honed in to a fake smile whilst her dead eyes scream for mercy from her Eurovision overlords, we (we being Luke Stevenson and his delightfully charming, pretty, mentally sound and very forgiving other half Charleyy Hodson) are going to do a two person blog/discussion/full blown argument.

Whereas most couples have arguments about a new house, a family holiday, toenail clippings and putting the toilet seat down, we have arguments about video games, possibly because we’re students and we relish the idea of giving the Daily Mail something to complain about by spending our time frivolously rather than doing our ‘too easy’ courses, or we just like video game debates; chiefly of the Bethesda vs Rockstar variety. Two leaders of the sandbox video game genre and both having a rather eventful Christmas period (Skyrim’s release, GTA 5 Trailer, it’s a tenuous link but one good enough to justify the emergence of this blog) and both game companies that got us thinking, which one does open world games better?

(P.S. If you’re wondering what Charleyy’s credentials are for this, she runs this blog: www.confessionsofagamergirl.tumblr.com also, she’s willing to sleep with me. She can do whatever she wants.)

INTRODUCTION

Team Rockstar: (Luke)


‘Oh hi there nameless, and aside from your hands, absolutely needless Elder Scrolls character, whilst you meander 40 minutes in environments that look EXACTLY THE SAME to a quest which will involve you walking back another 40 minutes in environments that look EXACTLY THE SAME, I, Carl Johnson, am going to take my hydra combat jet from Los Santos to Las Venturas to beat up a car with a sex toy that I stole from the showers of the local police station. Have fun on your dull walk whilst I do something actually fun!’

Lacking in legitimacy, sure, lacking in truth? Definitely not. A series of games that are as manic as they are interesting, fun as they are challenging, and fresh as they are comfortable. Rockstar takes your face and puts it into a blender and after 40 hours of intense story lines, extra game play, dildo beat ups and truly bad-ass living; you are transformed from a normal consumer to a face-mashed, mind blown addict of the biggest, best and most fun gaming institution around.

 

Team Bethesda: (Charley)


‘Sit down by the fire lad and let me tell you of an old, old tale about an ancient and fantastical land where dragons and damsels in distress were as far as the eye could see. Great misery and woe swept the lands as poverty and terror hid behind stream and mountain side, until Our Hero came along and banished the evil from the world…’
Now don’t lie, any game in which you ‘act the hero’ is going to be your cup of modesty tea. So take a break from the mindless dramatic characterisations, the manic cop chases and the relentless ‘douche-bag’ nature of Rockstar games, and begin a quest that will not only take up the next 300 hours of your life, but I can promise you’ll never experience anything like.

 

GAMEPLAY/MAPS/REALISM

Team Rockstar:

Now don’t get me wrong, what Bethesda does is a remarkable achievement, massive expanses of game play and scenery and exploiting everyone’s inherent need to collect stuff (the personal upgrades in areas of skill are beyond what anyone else can compare with) however the expanse of the environment is both repetitive (Oh look! Forest! Oh look! Mountains! Oh look, forest; Oh look, mountains; …oh look…forest…oh look…mountains) without any hint of variety and tedious as it takes the time of a spine reattachment surgery done by a Pug with no fingers to get from one quest line to another, and that’s without doing side quests on the way.

Whereas if you compare it with Rockstar games like GTA: San Andreas, GTA 4 and Red Dead Redemption, the maps are smaller (albeit, not by huge amounts) but thus have the benefit of more concentrated, better honed extra game play. Where games like The Elder Scrolls try to overawe you into kneejerk ‘This is brilliant!’ reactions by giving you the option to walk in to every single building and do the same thing every time (kill bandits, kill skeletons, kill bandits, kill skeletons). Rockstar tighten this availability, giving you selective side missions to do which are of a clearer, better quality. Side missions in all Rockstar games feel individual and stronger in quality because of the focus, whereas Skyrim’s scatter gun approach to open access is awe inspiring at first, but shockingly dull the longer you play.

 

Team Bethesda:

Granted a map doesn’t make a game, especially in terms of its scale; just look at Pac-Man for a perfectly pint size example. However, it’s not the fact that they CAN make unnecessarily large maps, but the fact that they actually add depth to the narrative and in their essence become a character of their own. In my own experiences, I’ve had sex with the same emaciated and sexually-infested old prostitute on Grand Theft Auto about a bazillion times, yet when I pass someone in Megaton they have a name and a backstory, no matter if they have any relevance to my reasons for being there or not. And it’s the same with the actual landscape. To me, every GTA game and even unfortunately in the latest LA Noire release, you’re based in a downtown prison. In Elder Scrolls, I can look at a tree in the distance, say ‘Hey, I’m gonna walk over to that tree.’ And you do. Then you see another one further away, so you just go there. Its’ called freedom Rockstar, try it sometime.

And then there’s the realism. Yeah, walking back and forth can become tiresome and boring, but when I’m so absorbed in a 3 hour hike up to the next dungeon with my heroic team of men, I walk with pride and an excited haste. I will give Rockstar its credit, as Red Dead Redemption and LA Noire were highly realistic in the story and atmosphere they told, specifically under the believability of the time era they were set within. But where realism REALLY catches my breath and takes it for a jolly good spanking is when my character in Skyrim became a werewolf; now just where in the hell would they create a situation like this out of previous experiences? When a game pushes the limits of expectation and possibility and yet you still mender on with no disruption of continuity or question, then you’ve really got a seller; and that to me is the sole purpose of Bethesda titles. Need I remind you that Fallout 3 is set in a post-apocalyptic Washington DC?!

 

GRAPHICS

Team Rockstar:

Now I feel a bit strange trying to argue why graphics make Rockstar better than Bethesda, mainly because I don’t believe a game needs good, realistic graphics to be an outstanding game. Two of my favourite games include GTA San Andreas which, let’s face it, looks like what would happen if you gave a cat with learning difficulties a paintball gun and said ‘Draw me a person!’ to it, and Batman Arkham Asylum, though visually stunning, is only realistic if it’s trying to be a representation of what an army of Arnold Schwarzeneggers would look like if they did a sadomasochistic porno.

My argument on the Rockstar side of things relate to the dense graphical input on LA Noire which is a game changer as far as game production goes, and Red Dead Redemption, which is so beautiful it makes me think I will reject my first born child for not being as pretty as the landscapes in that game. Both offer much stronger graphical input into a game than Skyrim, which does a remarkable line in copying and pasting every mountain range and tree and dotting them about everywhere, and not focusing on the nitty gritty to such an extent it becomes embarrassing to be a part of… For example…

(1 minute) …Ahem.

 

Team Bethesda:

First and foremost; that blood ritual sickened me.

We’ve now reached a stage in our technological evolution that gives every individual who owns a video game console to declare that they know the most about games; mostly underlined by whether it looks ‘prettier’ or not. I won’t lie, I fell to the tempting lust of arguing that Battlefield 3 ‘looks’ better than Call of Duty: Modern Warfare 3 therefore meaning it had some moral higher ground on which I should play it, but when you’re comparing a 6-month old physics engine (Frostbite 2) against a constantly adapted older engine (IW 5.0), then there’s going to be some differences. My point is that, as Luke here puts as the ‘concentrated’ and ‘dense graphics’ that Liberty City boasts, do not outweigh the breath taking precision and unique value of visual feasting an area such as Morrowind.

Red Dead Redemption, throughout this whole argument, is my kryptonite though. It’s professional and sleek approach to a natural landscape and even impressively a country shift (America – Mexico) is what draws me to every Bethesda game; I feel like a lone wonderer on a personal quest of discovery and I won’t be returning until I’ve captured myself a wench and there’s a decapitated bear on my wall. This, no doubt, is a probably possibility in the Elder Scroll titles.

Though it could be argued as ‘gameplay’, I’d say the subject of combat and weaponry is a matter of graphics; after all you’re not going to believe you’re shooting someone with a sniper rifle if you’ve got a baseball bat in your hands. Rockstar trended towards the easier ‘tap-to-aim’ difficulty setting (which I’m aware can be toggled off before you mention it), whereas Bethesda offers a myriad of 2-handed/1-handed/no handed/artillery based choices of weaponry each with a specifically tailored style of fighting technique. If you use a bow and arrow in Skyrim, you have to physically point in the bastards’ direction and aim for the face; in Grand Theft Auto you can just auto-aim for a leg and pummel the poor guy to death in the most inaccurate manner with a crowbar. At the end of the day, this system of weaponry is perfect for the genre Bethesda sets up, as I can’t imagine Niko Bellic gallivanting through Liberty City with a Daedric Warhammer much as I can’t picture casually strolling through Cyrodiil with a pump-action shotgun.

 

NARRATIVE

Team Rockstar:

This could go a very predictable way with every person saying ‘Well GTA and (arguably) Red Dead tell the same kind of story! A serial killer with no money becoming a very successful serial killer with lots of money, whilst Rockstar try to make us blindly feel empathy for a character that is actually a dick!’ That is a valid argument, but in the GTA series you would call it CONTINUITY, if you played GTA San Andreas and then GTA 4 turned out to be a My Little Pony spin off when the closest you come to a deadly adventure is when Rainbow Dash (Generation 4, I know how to use Google) gets on the bad end of a cloud which looks like it could seriously bruise its knee; the masses would be pretty pissed off and darn right confused.

The fact of the matter is Rockstar are brilliant story tellers, crafting similar characters with slightly different twists and motivations in a remarkably familiar, yet fresh environment. No matter what you say; I find it impossible not to connect with these characters. The immersion you get into their life, heartaches and betrayals whilst understanding them better makes it so when you get to the end of a game (such as GTA 4) it’s no debate that you want to revenge. An affront on Niko is an affront on you, and you want him to succeed.

This is a quality which Bethesda (well, the Elder Scrolls as I have not played Fallout 3 and think it would be unfair to tar it with the same brush) lacks, as you are simply a pair of hands with no connection to the outside world. Before someone throws out the ‘choice of what to say’ argument, if you compare Skyrim with how Mass Effect manages that kind of game play, there is no question of quality. Mass Effect brings in moral and character choices that hone how the game continues with brilliantly intercut cinematic spectacles. Similarly GTA 4 touched upon this aspect and Rockstar will most likely build upon in GTA 5; the options of revenge or to make a deal towards the end, whether or not to kill a characters girlfriend who then reappears later in the game if you don’t are wonderful inclusions which I won’t deny The Elder Scrolls games touch upon but they are not handled with the quality of GTA4, where you feel like your decision means something stronger than just what quest line you follow, it’s one that will affect the outcome of the story and connects you better with the characters.

 

Team Bethesda:


‘A pair of hands with no connection to the outside world’ – I’d like to point out here Luke, you MANIPULATE the outside world. If I acted like a complete douche-bag as I flounced about Washington DC, along the way blowing up a few hundred innocent people with my Fat-Man, then I would be denied certain content in the game for being such a bloody bastard. It’s on a fine line of morality and curiosity to do such a thing, but one that indefinitely rewards you both ways. The only scale with an even minute effect that’s equivalent in a GTA is if you do something particular naughty on a mission and you get chased by the Police. Whoop-de-doo, you can just evade them and the idiot AI on call that day practically forgets the existence of the major serial murderer they were chasing down the last highway. Though this isn’t true to Red Dead Redemption (your fame/honour scale for example) and obvious nature of your shiny sheriffs badge in LA Noire, but again diversion from socially accepted standards aren’t treated with the fair and unrelenting punishment Bethesda throws at you.

On to the story itself, isn’t it nice to get away from the traffic jams of everyday life and the mindless carnage/gang warfare we view in our newspaper everyday and escape to a land full of fantastical creatures and situations completely opposite to our own? Completing quests in Rockstar land will grant you better guns and a wider access to other lands, but Bethesda offer you a quest of discovery and self-improvement, and wouldn’t we all prefer that to a larger maximum magazine clip on your pew-pew pistol? The main narrative line is there when you’re ready to conquer your next challenge, but the sheer amount and range of side quests in these games offer the vital RPG element to character building that Rockstar can’t quite seem to even attempt. Let’s look at some side quests for example:
1) Grand Theft Auto 4 – Take out your girlfriend, have a perfect date, fingers crossed you fuck. If not, try again tomorrow or whenever she’s free. In the meantime, steal a car and kill some hoes.
2) Fallout 3 – Stumble upon a town with an active bomb at the centre, detonate the bomb or just leave the town and forget out their impending doom?

Now there’s a side quest with some perspective and consequence.

 

MAIN CHARACTER

Team Rockstar:

This is not particularly a topic up for debate, as all Rockstar games craft brilliant characters with intriguing back stories and genuinely emotionally binding narratives (find me at the end of GTA San Andreas crying in a bathtub of celebratory Ben & Jerry’s; that’s how happy I was) throughout their games. Niko Bellic is a truly fascinating character; one who you don’t believe does what he does because he enjoys killing people, but because he has no other choice. There are also serious questions asked in these games, the opening credits of Red Dead introduce a morality question whilst they do the ever-so-discreet shot towards the main character which says DON’T HATE THIS GUY! LISTEN TO WHAT THE CUTE INNOCENT GIRL SAYS! ‘I find it impossible to make the distinction between a loving act, and a hateful act.’ *Marston looks*…Juicy.

Rockstar craft their characters in a way which makes you genuinely connect with them, so much so that by the end of games like SA and GTA4 it takes all your self-restraint not to punch your way into the screen and kill the bastards yourself you want them to succeed so bad.

This skill stems from a focus on the narrative rather than the open world, there is a reason why neither me or my significant other have played Skyrim in a month but I find it difficult not to want to
constantly play Red Dead which I started a while back; the engaging story.

Furthermore, though an argument for Bethesda is that you get to manipulate your environment to create your own character through your own choices, this is becoming more and more apparent in Rockstar games like GTA 4 and Red Dead, you are given the choices whether to kill people or not, you respond to the game to decide what you want your character to be and what kind of person you perceive they are and respond, something that engages you just as much as any Bethesda option.

The pair of hands you are in Elder Scrolls games are a vacuous vessel to show off their open world, but not to connect with, not to want to succeed with, not to want to cry for, the characters might as well be an Addams Family creature for all the use they are. (For the unaware, see the hand: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eVm_WXF9Dl0&feature=related)

 

Team Bethesda:

As I’ve mentioned before, Red Dead Redemption is my challenge here. In fact, I would even go so far as to say it is one of my all-time favourite games. I do on this particular level agree with Luke’s argument as I feel Bethesda misses a beneficial chance to create a beautiful and lasting relationship between the player and the main character, but all because they have no name or memorable face does not mean they lack the ability to hit you where it hurts (see Liam Neeson’s character ‘Dad’ in Fallout 3; I literally love that character).

Though you may not have a name given to you and a character type to automatically play up to, you are however a far more interesting character with thoughts, opinions and choices no other person in the world could replicate; yourself. YOU are the pair of hands crafting the weapon YOU use to fend off the Raiders attacking YOUR home town and YOUR loved ones. Powerful stuff, eh?

Apart from LA Noire, in Rockstar games you always seem to be the ‘bad guy on his righteous path to self reinvention’. Yawn. In Bethesda games, you can decide precisely where you want to lie on the thin line of the law and exactly how far you plan on pushing it. A breath of fresh air from the carefully constructed character archetypes and scripted paths given to you in GTA titles, choose to play a game with your own outcome and victories.

 

So folks have we convinced you to either of our sides of the argument? Chances are you had your mind made up before you read the article and there was nothing we could do to persuade you otherwise.

So what’s it to be? Bethesda or Rockstar?

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