EXCLUSIVE: Werner Herzog Interview

By Michael J Edwards / July 1, 2011

Little Dieter Wants to Fly) so the first thing we wanted to know was what buttons weren't pushed in the earlier piece...

"I wouldn't say that buttons were not pressed, I wouldn't ever say it like that, but for Dieter and me, for Dieter especially, this was seen as unfinished business. Too many things that were really fascinating, including what happened in the prison camps, are hardly touched in the documentary. The two complement each other very well. It was also clear between Dieter and me that the feature film would come first, and though it has come later, in its fact and in its spirit the feature film comes first."

What qualities did Dieter Dengler have that attracted you to him?

"I think he had all the qualities which I like in America, this kind of frontier spirit, and optimism and loyalty, and a joy of physically being around and tackling things. He did something that very few prisoners of war did - he refused to sign the propaganda declaration . He just kept saying 'I love America, America gave me wings.' He was a very very unique man with great survival instincts and great leadership instincts."

And were you affected by the volume of other Vietnam films out there?

"No, because it is not a Vietnam movie. It is a survival film, a film about friendship. For Dieter the war was ended 40 minutes into his first mission, and back in 1955 the Vietnam war was just starting to settle in, it had not found its magnitude and its significance yet so I never saw it as a Vietnam War movie."

Talking of the location, the jungle in the film was very authentic, very tough - did you try to make it come across that way?

"I do have some experience in jungles with other films, though in this case I wanted to have it more physical than all the others before. We would drive around looking at all the vines and shrubs and undergrowth where you literally could not imagine a human penetrating it, and we would stop and say 'lets go to that one'. So obviously the cameraman had to be very physical - he was a former ice-hockey player for Sparta Prague, a very very physical man."

And you avoided using the Hollywood technique of grainy DV-style imagery to 'throw us in with the action', was that premeditated too?

"It was always clear we would use real quality film, we actually shot on a very large film frame - super 35mm - where you use a large amount of the available of the film, so the technical quality is much higher than a regular quality film. In a way, the authenticity does not come to the pretext of grainy, digital video stuff, it comes from somewhere else."

Its been said that some of the families have objected to the portrayal of characters in the film, particularly that of Eugene, how would you respond to that?

"I do understand that the family saw him differently from how he was in Laos. Apparently, and I would not have objections, he was a very kind sweet family man. However, how Dieter decribed him, very precisely, over and over, after more than two years in medieval foot-blocks, with diarrhoea, handcuffed to others, there was a fair amount of delusion in him... I wanted to follow the story of Dieter Dengler and it is his story that starts here. If I had known every single one of the prisoners intimately and had gotten their stories I probably would have ended up with five different variations of the story - so I would like to be very clear that this is Dieter Dengler's perspective."

And what qualities did you see in Christian Bale for the role?

"He's the best of his generation, and i was blessed with all the best of this generation, with Jeremy and with Steve . And of course Steve Zahn, nobody expected anything of him back then because he's mostly been the funny sidekick in Eddie Murphy movies, but I knew that Steve had something very special about him. I had to stop Christian from going too much into an imitation of the real Dieter Dengler, who had a very thick German accent and Christian and I were quite clear that we had to dismiss that. You do not imitate all of his idiosyncracies, you capture him in essence."

And did he have problems eating maggots for you?

"Not really, I have seen local people in other countries actually eat maggots, and they are rich in protein... I would essentially offer to do things I was asking of actors. For example, when they were in the rapids I spent all day with them in the water, and I offered to drink a couple of spoons of the water too! But, in this case, Christian just said 'turn on the camera and let me get it over with.'"

He also adds that:

"In solidarity I lost half the amount of weight that he lost. I said to him I am not going to lose that much weight but over five or six months I am losing some as well. It would be counter-productive to lose that much weight as he will gain it back that much quicker Jeremy Davies in a way overdid it. He arrived in Thailand with quite a few very large suitcases and I wondered what on earth they were filled with. It turned out that they were filled with bottled 'Evian' water - which can be bought in the Supermarket next to the hotel (!) - and he ate very little and mostly drank water."

Was there any conflict with the cast in this film?

"We had two misunderstandings, one when we were at least 100 yards apart and had to yell over a long distance - something got lost for a moment and we were angry with each other but it was over in 2 minutes flat. The other was at the moment when he ate the maggots. I told him 'you are the one who will stop the scene', but he didn't hear correctly and he kept eating, eating, eating and really got kind of angry because I never said 'cut'! But these things pass quickly."

This is described as your 'first truly American film', seeing how well it has gone, do you wish you had done it before?

"Do I wish I had done it in this way? No... well its not the first film I made in this manner anyway. And in the cultural definition of the industry it's not a 'Hollywood' film, Hollywood would never have gone for the casting, they would never have allowed me to have Steve Zahn; the producers were absolutely the contrary of Hollywood. The main producer had made most of his money in packing business and in farming and the other production had gotten most of his finances as a basketball star - they never had any experience in filmmaking which, in a way, was a blessing because it meant I could do the film I really wanted to do, but on the other hand it was often late because they didn't know how to handle a shoot and never had the finances in place when it was needed! One day over 30 people from the Thai crew quit because they weren't paid in time, and the transportation department didn't even get any money for buying gasoline, but I still kept shooting that day. And I finished the film two days under schedule."

Given the renaissance of German film, have you thought about going back?

"I'm married in America, so i'll probably stay there. But of course I have made films in Peru, Antarctica, and in Africa - I have made very few films in my country but it is not necessary that I go back there, in a way this film is a very Bavarian film. The spirit of Dieter Dengler even though he is an American immigrant, is very much of the culture and I have never left the culture. Peter and Emmerich they always wanted to make Hollywood films, it was always their dream, which I have never done. I left my country but I never left my culture. In the same way you shouldn't be worried about George Lucas going to the outer galaxies, it is still about his own culture!"

So now you have the inside line, there's plenty of stuff to look out for and nuances to enjoy in Rescue Dawn - which is out in UK cinemas on 23rd of November. I refer here of course to the infamous incident on the set of Aguirre, Wrath of God where Herzog supposedly prevented Klaus Kinski from walking out on the production by pulling a gun on him. And although OWF in no way condones such actions, let me say - what a guy!