(spoilers, obviously)
Before I begin with this I’d just like to state that I love Christopher Nolan’s interpretation of Batman; both Batman Begins and The Dark Knight were fantastic films and, despite quite a few flaws and a complete failure to live up to the hype that surrounded it, I still found a lot to enjoy about The Dark Knight Rises. On the whole I felt that it was a good movie, held together by strong performances, a stirring soundtrack and the calibre of special effects that we’ve come to expect from Nolan and co.
However, for me, despite all of these strong points, I just couldn’t bring myself to rave about TDKR like I had the first two films. I just found that there were too many niggling things that damaged the film for me and, whilst discussing the movie’s failings with some friends over drinks, I decided upon the one thing that really annoyed me about TDKR.
My dissatisfaction originated from one key plot twist. Up until that point I had been perfectly happy to excuse the clichéd evil scheme (obtain control of nuclear device, cause havoc, etc), the general lack of Batman featuring in most of the film (maybe the film should have been titled ‘Bruce Wayne: A Biopic’) and the fact that every epic sequence had been ruined by the fact that it featured in the trailer. These were all excusable because I had come to appreciate Bane as the film’s antagonist; he had been given an interesting origin story and Tom Hardy’s performance was both menacing and memorable.
Then Talia al Ghul (Marion Cotillard) showed up, and ruined everything.
Okay, I will admit that, when I first watched the scene where she is revealed to be the mastermind behind the entire evil plan, and promptly stabs Batman in the side, I sat there mindblown, thinking ‘what a twist! I did not see that coming!’ Then I began to think about the implications of this revelation, and found my enjoyment souring.
My biggest objection is the fact that, by having Talia as the mastermind, the scriptwriters instantly negate Bane’s impact. Prior to this moment, he had been portrayed as an anarchic, intelligent criminal with revolutionary ideals, as someone with a high enough IQ to formulate a plan to blow Gotham sky high, bankrupt Bruce Wayne and hold the United States hostage, whilst also boasting enough strength to break Batman’s back. So far so good, we have an excellent supervillain on our hands. Except, with Talia in the picture, all the credit for the masterplan, the highjacking of a nuclear device, the hit on the stock exchange, the revolution in Gotham, is taken away from Bane, making him little more than a thug who has been acting, not out of greed or revolutionary zeal, but out of love for his commander.
Essentially, Talia’s role in the film completely undermines Bane as a villain, and completely takes the focus away from his beliefs and motives (something which is highlighted by his completely underwhelming death moments later, which consists of him being shot against a wall – hardly a fitting end for someone who acted as the film’s main villain for two hours.)
In all fairness, I do accept that having Talia in the movie provides a fitting link back to Batman Begins and also stays true to the source material (whereas sticking with Bane as Ra’s al Ghul’s child would have been a major deviation). I just think that there could have been better ways to integrate her into the story, rather than sidelining Bane in the film’s final scene. On this occasion, I sadly think that Nolan was trying to be too clever for his own good.
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17 Comments
I could have believed it more if she had been introduced in TDK
Come on, this is a silly blanket statement. Saying Bane is “dumb muscle” is like saying Sherman was a henchman to Grant, Montgomery was nothing without Churchill, or that any of the Corleone kids in the Godfather automatically become less interesting without Vito. Bane was Talia’s partner. She may have been the head of the League, but he commanded the men. He was the one leading the men. It is said in the film that they both became members and were endoctorated by its philosophies: Getting revenge for Ra’s death was an added bonus for the two. What was driving both wasn’t mere revenge but fulfillment of a sense of purpose that the League offered: Just like Bruce was given a sense of purpose by his being Batman. The twist at the end, doesn’t negate Bane’s character one bit: instead it offers a fascinating dichotomy between Bruce sense of purpose and the one the League offered both Talia and Bane.
When the revelation came at the end I also thought that Bane was now just a simple minded villain taking orders from a boss, at first. Then I realized that when she tells him to kill Batman he does not listen, showing that he has his own agendas and will do what he wants, he is no ones dog. So it didn’t ruin it for me.
Indeed. Whose to say that Bane wasn’t the mastermind behind everything and Talia was just along for the ride.
wat rubbish???if u cant pick up the twist in a movie then u shuold stop judging it…i think talia was spot on as a twisting part in a movie…her inclusion was absolutely justified becoz we all know that tdkr is a conclusion to the journey of bruce wayne and it can’t be completed without ras al ghul(his teacher)…bane has never had any emotional connection or any motive to destroy gotham like talia who has to avenge her father’s death by fulfilling his wish to destroy gotham…
Who’s to say that Talia was the mastermind and planned everything? Because she’s Ra’s al Ghul’s daughter? She might have been the motivation, but Bane might have planned everything out of love & respect to her. That does not mean she was his “boss”. It’s actually also feasible that Bane was her boss and I don’t see how the ending states that either way. Just like Blake’s future, it is left up to interpretation…
I think we’re nitpicking a little too much on this film. I honestly don’t think that it’s even fair to compare it to TDK becuase you’re talking about an iconic villian who was portrayed stunningly. Plus, it wasn’t on the massive scale that Rises was…
Having said that, I think too many people had the expectations that it would exceed TDK, which was unrealistic. That’s why, unfortunately, people like you want to nitpick things about Rises that could’ve easily been done on TDK as well, but no mentions that, because they hold TDK on such a pedestal…
Rises was a good film. Not great, but very good. It’s probably better than any 3rd film in trilogy history, this side of Return of the Jedi. Give credit where credit is due…
Why shouldn’t we expect a film on par with TDK when we have mostly the same cast, director and crew?
For me, it wasn’t the reveal of Talia that was disappointing. The disappointing thing for me was Bruce leaving Gotham.
The ending would have been so much better had Bruce appeared in a wheelchair to greet Robin in the cave saying, “Are you ready to begin?”
Oh come on Tristan. That is the very definition of a cop out. These films were in heighted reality, but we’ve been shown Bruce Wayne is still a man. In Begins he says his purpose is to inspire the city so Gotham no longer needs Batman. At the end of this film he accomplishes that goal. If he stays, then he has no future (life beyond the death of his parents, Rachel, and Dent).He’s moved on and entrusted everything to others like Blake to pick up the baton so to speak. Should Bruce have trained him? No, because Bruce found all he needed by looking for it on his own. His leaving everything to Blake teases the idea that Bruce says in the film, “Batman is an idea. Anyone can be him.”
Dude! thank you so much for clearing that out… i saw tdkr thrice in the theatres…. the third time everyscene bane came was boring cuz he was just a thug! so i searched how others felt and after you told this! my mind got cleared! now i love tdkr again! cuz if a guy who was coming the whole movie was just a thug of someone who comes at the end! the moive would have made no impact! so thank you!
While I understand Doc with what Bruce says “Batman is an idea. Anyone can be him”, I don’t think that is true in practice. At the start of TDK there are some people trying to be Batman. They cannot be Batman because they don’t have the training, intelligence and drive of Bruce Wayne.
I do agree Doc that we have been shown Bruce Wayne is still a man, and I can understand a man moving on to become a more complete human being. The thing is I understand Bruce Wayne as someone who can never move on. He does give everything. This is the Bruce Wayne I understand from comic lore.
Fair enough, but remember, those copycats in TDK did something Bruce could never allow himself to do-Use firearms and wantedly bypass his one rule. Harvey Dent and Ra’s aside (who he doesn’t actually kill), Bruce isn’t one to use lethal force. Those copycats where. As such, they could not symbolize what he wanted Batman to symbolize-Justice instead of extremism.
Whilst in the comics Batman can go on forever, Christophet Nolan shows the physical toll that such a life would take on a person in the beginning of this film. As such, one man continually being Batman is impossible. In a lot of ways, his return to the role of Batman mirrors the old notion of one an returning to the saddle for one last ride (ex: Clint Eastwood’s Unforgiven), and does provide an ending to this interpretation of the character. While the comic lore is still important, it is a different medium then film. Think of the trilogy as a series of interconnected graphic novels that reach a conclusion. If it did have an ending that furthered this version of Bruce Wayne’s story, they would go on a dilute the points that Nolan brings up and weaken any legacy that they have. The first Pirates movie is solid entertainment, but they continued producing sequels that were lacking, and have made the first one weaker in the process. I applaud Nolan for not only knowing when to step away, but convince WB to leave his interpretation of the character alone.
As for JGL becoming the next cinematic Batman, I don’t see it happening. The fact that he’s part of Nolan’s company of actors doesn’t seem to indicate that he would want to do anything to interfere with Nolan’s legacy. In interviews, both him and Ann Hathaway have said that they would want to do nothing without Nolan’s presence or say so.
im a batman fan. but not that geek abt it. but i know bane is just brute in the comic. for him to be the mastermind, its just not him. i was disappointed at 1st. then talia appear which relief me and make more sense. bane is no joker. and he is not to be that such complex character like the joker. so im just glad talia is there.
You’re obviously not a true batman fan then. So what if you don’t see the batman about 50 minutes into the film… it’s not just a story about batman, but bruce wayne aswell. ”What Culture” sucks…
Alex,
I am a true batman fan, and I completely share youre thoughts on the movie.
All people that give negative comments on youre review clearly do not understand the importance of a antagonist in a movie.
Thanks for a great review!!!
That was a pretty sad attempt to introduce Talia — as a the “butler” in the murder story. But what really ruined it for me was the scene that revealed that Bane’s hideout was directly under Lucius Fox’s Applied Science Lab! That was so stupid. YOu don’t think something as secretive as the lab would have an even lower hidden spot that Batman never wondered about even when Catwoman led him there. Messed up.
She flat out ruined DNR! Kinda like Cameron Diaz ruined the green hornet! I may sound like racist or whatever but no non Americans should be in batman or any superhero movie excluding Michael Caine (because he is awesome and has earned his stripes) period!
I just wanted to ask you guys on your thoughts on something.
I have been thinking about this for a while now (a bit too much time on my hands) and this concerns the final chapter of the Dark Knight trilogy, as in “Rises”. I loved it when I went to see it. Stunned by the visuals and performances. Hardy as Bane was incredible and Bale gave hands down his best performance, as did everyone else! Yet the more I think on it, the more i realized that there was something wrong with it and I think you guys must have noticed it to. The story wasn’t finished.
Now don’t get me wrong! I really love the Nolan’s Dark Knight trilogy, it’s one of my favourites BUT it should have been four films. As in four points to bring Bruce Wayne full circle! Hardy as Bane was a powerhouse performance but his reveal as a love struck henchman was a total miss-step in my opinion. Marion Cotiliard as Talia al Ghul was completely underused and could have been so much more. She needed to have been Bruce Waynes actual girlfriend from the start of Rises and a chance for Bruce to live happily, finally.
Miranda Tate reveals herself near the end as Talia, but instead they could have left that reveal until the very end of the film, when she flees Gotham and lives to fight another day. Batman did NOT need to “die” and could have ended Rises with him asking Robin in the cave “if he was ready to begin?” (like Ras al Ghul did to Wayne). Batman had YEARS of training with ninjas (under Liam freaking Neeson).
Blake was a policeman, and now he is suddenly supposed to be BATMAN? He would be dead in days! They should have then set the fourth and final film with Batman and Robin (who is now trained by Bruce himself) struggling to fight Talia and her army. She then reveals that she was pregnant and now they have a young son, Damian. By the end of it, Talia would have been defeated, Robin would have truly earned his place as the new Batman, and Bruce Wayne would step down to be a father to his son, Damian. FULL CIRCLE!
Nolan is no doubt a brilliant story-teller and filmmaker but he really missed something there. Perhaps he simply wanted to move on and make more films like Inception (and I’m ok with that frankly!). Who knows what the DC universe holds, but all I do know is God help the man who follows Mr Nolan.