With the upcoming The Dark Knight Rises, the third in a trilogy of highly successful Batman movies by Christopher Nolan, and the recent release of the hotly anticipated video game Arkham City, its really never been a better time to be a Batman fan. The past few years have seen a gigantic leap in popularity for DC Comic’s surly, brooding poster boy, a character that has always held a large amount of public affection in its near 80 year history.
With this in mind, WhatCulture has decided to do an article comparing the two most beloved Batman movies: Tim Burton’s Batman from 1989, the iconic and most endearing interpretation of Batman, and The Dark Knight, Christopher Nolan’s second take on the World’s Greatest Detective from 2008, the highest grossing and critically revered Batman film to date. As soon as I heard of this, I practically pleaded for the opportunity to write it. I happen to be a huge fan of Batman and all things Batman: the movies, the tv shows (yes, even that one), the video games, and especially the comic books. And to my eternal gratitude, our editor Matt Holmes let me have it.
The two films will be analysed and compared in various categories including characters, music and story with a watchful eye on how true they are to the source material, namely the legion of Batman stories DC have published over the years. Before we get started, I’d like to point out that this isn’t a definitive “which is better” or even the thoughts of the WhatCulture staff as a whole, this will be purely be the opinions of myself, in all my Batman-obsessed glory.
With that said, get your Batarangs sharpened and don your finest cape and cowl, it’s Batman vs. Batman time!
Characters
Batman
Naturally, we start with the big one: Batman himself. There have been many incarnations of Batman; From black and white serials in the 40s and 50s to various animated shows and a certain 60s television show staring one Adam West. Arguably the most famous and iconic version (besides THAT one) is Michael Keaton’s from Batman ‘89.
Keaton’s Batman is imposing, brooding and intimidating. The first time we see him, he dangles a hapless would-be thief over the edge of a roof, snarling that he’s not going to kill him. But then he snaps his arms inward and draws the thief face to face. He might have said he wasn’t about to kill him, but he sure as hell seemed like he was going to do it. And throughout the film he keeps up that same level intensity and intimidating presence. His movements might be stiff and his voice might be a little silly, but Keaton simply embodied the role perfectly. You got a sense that this man is angry and he’s going to use that anger to help the people of Gotham. It’s never explained or explored in this movie (that would have to wait until Joel Schumacher’s Batman Forever in 1995), but that doesn’t matter, all you need to know is that when Batman is out on patrol in the streets, he’s going to kick and punch his way through the night.
There is, however, one major and quite frankly unforgiving flaw with this version of Batman. Towards the end of the film, we are treated to a climactic battle between Batman and The Joker, plus whatever of his own goons he hasn’t shot yet, in a church bell tower. As he makes his way to the top of the tower, Batman dispatches a Joker thug…by throwing him off the top of the stairwell, to his death. And of course, the Joker himself meets a similar end on the roof of the tower. Both of these demises are directly caused by Batman.
I’m going to try and keep this next point brief, because essentially this is going to be a rant. Batman does not kill. Ever. It goes against every principle he has as the self appointed guardian of Gotham City. Bruce Wayne’s parents are coldly murdered in front of him, traumatising him for life and laying the foundations for everything that happens in his life after that point. The reason he fights crime as Batman is to prevent something like that from ever happening to anyone else. If he chooses to take a life, he is no better than his parents’ killer, and he will have instantly failed in his crusade. But in Batman ‘89, he does fail. Twice.
Batman. Does not. Kill.
Now, if Michael Keaton’s Batman voice was silly, then the voice Christian Bale uses in The Dark Knight is just flat out ridiculous. I once heard the voice described by filmmaker Kevin Smith as that of a child trying to sound intimidating. And I find myself in complete agreement. Its just so laughable. Bale spends his entire time as Batman shouting his way through his dialogue. Just take a look at the scene where he is trying to track down The Joker by interrogating Salvatore Maroni. “WHERE IS HE?!?”, he bellows, followed up by “HE MUST HAVE FRIENDS!!!!”. In those ten seconds, the believability of Bale as Batman slips away. Worse still is during one of the final scenes, where he tries to coax former friend and ally Harvey Dent into calming down. What he says was actually touching. “You were the best of us, Harvey.” it’s a beautiful, heartbreaking moment. Or rather, it would have been, had Bale’s voice not been somewhere between shouting and losing his voice.
Bale is fine in every other area. He is commanding, forceful, and that voice aside, yes he is intimidating. He has presence at all times, and not because he’s standing there in a mask and Kevlar armour. But that voice just makes it impossible to take him seriously. It’s a shame, really, but in truth, Keaton’s Batman is iconic and stands out, whereas Bale’s is just there. Its neither great, nor is it terrible (voice aside…). Until someone can come along and top it, Michael Keaton is the definitive Batman.
Winner: Batman ‘89
Alfred Pennyworth
Former RAF medic Alfred Pennyworth is perhaps the most important thing in Batman’s life, aside from his mission. He is an ally, a confidant, a consultant and a safety net whenever he is needed. As the Wayne family’s butler, it was up to Alfred to look after young Bruce. And that he did…in a way. He allowed Bruce to pursue his own goals, understanding the reasons behind it and pledging his support, and has been an unflappable means of support and assistance.
Michael Gough played the irreplaceable assistant in Batman ‘89 and continued to do so for the next 3 movies and, bizarrely, in a series of commercials for the OnStar vehicle tracking system in 2001. While I always loved Gough’s performance and interaction with the three different Batmen he starred alongside, I never really felt that Alfred was a real partner in Batman’s crusade. He was always there on hand with advice and assistance, but besides telling Bruce Wayne that Commissioner Gordon had to leave his party early and should look into why, handing his employer files when asked, and for some inexplicable reason allowing a practical stranger into the Batcave, Alfred doesn’t really do anything. Its more or less a literal interpretation of him as a butler. And while Gough’s infectiously charming version is always a joy to watch, it never really struck me as the real deal.
When the franchise was rebooted, legendary actor Michael Caine stepped into Gough’s shoes as the next generation version of Wayne’s butler. Like Gough, Caine dishes out advice and information, but crucially, in The Dark Knight, his Alfred has warmth, spirit, humour and most of all, love. The Nolan interpretation goes to great lengths to protect his employer, be it trying to remind him that he is only a man and therefore has limitations just like everyone else, arranging alibis or willing him to keep going when he’s at his lowest point, at one point burning a letter revealing the true feelings of Rachael Dawes, the woman Bruce always loved, rather than let him find out the truth. As the film progresses we see Alfred in many ways act as a father figure to Bruce rather than a hired helper, and in many ways Alfred is exactly that. He is the only constant in Bruce’s world, has been there for every high and low and has never questioned or attempted to walk away from what is quite frankly a crazy as all hell plan. While the exact same can be said for Gough’s version, the relationship has always struck me as that of an antagonistic yet doting sibling, rather than a fully fledged guardian and friend. Because of that, Caine’s version is the better of the two. So long as there’s no reference to that line from The Italian Job.
Winner: The Dark Knight
Commissioner Gordon
A man determined to do the right thing and protect his fellow man, Jim Gordon is one of the few people Batman can truly call a friend. No matter how many people call on him to break away from the alliance or even work to bring him down, Gordon is loyal to Batman because he knows he will stop at nothing to save people.
Much like Michael Gove, Pat Hingle stared in every movie from Batman ‘89 until 1997’s Batman & Robin (but the less said about that film the better). In his first outing, Hingle’s Commissioner Gordon comes across as ineffective, greedy (just watch him gambling at Wayne Manor if you don’t agree with me) and almost lax in his duties. Despite the threat posed by the Joker killing dozens of people, Gordon’s main concern is the 200 year celebration of Gotham party. There’s a maniac on the loose killing people via seemingly random chemical attacks using everyday household products and he’s worried about a party. Our Commissioner, ladies and gentlemen!
The Dark Knight’s Gordon (in this a Lieutenant before being promoted to Commissioner) is played by Gary Oldman, and is a much more hands on interpretation, He frequently liaises and plans with Batman and isn’t afraid to get caught right in the thick of it, at one point faking death in order to trap The Joker. He truly cares about the safety of Gotham and goes above and beyond his abilities, despite being aware that almost everyone he works with is corrupt in some way.
While I can forgive the fact that the Gordon of Batman ‘89 has yet to establish a bond with Batman, you simply don’t get the feeling that he really cares about Gotham beyond the fact that he has to. He bumbles his was through scenes as light relief and doesn’t really serve much purpose to the story. As such, Gary Oldman’s take is the superior, for me at least.
Winner: The Dark Knight
Harvey Dent/Two-Face
There was one other upholder of the law Batman could count as a friend and ally: District Attorney Harvey Dent. Dent, arguably, was the most determined of the three in his personal crusade for justice, and for a time at least Harvey fought on the side of the angels. That all changed when he was scarred with acid down one side of his face, fracturing his psyche in two, taking on the moniker of Two-Face.
Much like Commissioner Gordon, the Dent of Batman ‘89 is only a minor character, who we sadly don’t get to see much of. This version, performed by Billy Dee Williams, is charming and likeable, but again seems indifferent to the situation around him. it’s a shame, I think Williams could have had a great run with the role but sadly that is something we will never get to see.
Aaron Eckhart had far more to work with in The Dark Knight, as we got to see him as both the District Attorney and then his tragic transformation into Two-Face. He was interesting from the start, and like Williams had charisma and charm. As the film progressed we saw that he was a man of unwavering convictions but had a dark side: he let his temper get the best of him when his back was against the wall. When the inevitable happens and he becomes Two-Face, he becomes a man on fire (literally and figuratively), his every action becoming a quest for revenge for those he felt betrayed him and led him to that point. His performance is the highlight of the movie for me (yes, even with Heath Ledger burning through his scenes the way he does), and fully encapsulates every emotion you would expect on this journey.
With that said, I have a feeling if we got to see Williams’ take on the same arc, it would almost be impossible for me to pick between the two. But with only one of the two films fleshing the character out, Eckhart wins hands down.
Winner: The Dark Knight
The Love Interest
As is the way with Hollywood movies, there is a love interest in every single movie. It might make perfect sense to a film like Pay It Forward, and many other superhero movies, but with Batman it seems a bit odd. Due to his rather…shall we say unique night time activities, Bruce Wayne lacks the capacity to settle down like most movie protagonists end up doing, but even so, in every Batman film to date (including Adam West’s to a degree) we have had a love interest as a bit part of the story. In Batman ‘89 we have Vicky Vale and in The Dark Knight we have Rachael Dawes.
Vicki Vale is perhaps the most famous and enduring of Batman’s love interests besides Selina Kyle, also known as Catwoman. Batman ’89 had Gotham’s reporter extraordinaire as its love interest and Kim Basinger was the actress brought in to step into her expensive shoes. Basinger plays the role exactly as its meant to be: sharp, feisty and flirty when she needs to be in order to get a story. She does, however, have the unfortunate role as damsel in distress frequently throughout the film, Hollywood sadly not ready to have truly independent female leads just yet. In at least three seperate occasions Vale is at the mercy of The Joker, and in every single scene like that all she does is stand there looking scared, and occasionaly delivers an ear-bleedingly screechy shriek. Combining this with the fact she somehow manages to sneak her way into the Batcave, with what looks like asistance from Alfred (to this day that confuses me, as did it Keaton himself in an early scene in Batman Returns three years later), Vicki Vale’s character is completely inconsistant from one scene to the next. There is a lot going for her in terms of how Basinger plays her and the chemistry she has with Keaton, but as she flip flops back and forth between intrepid reporter and shrieking violet (literally…my poor ears…), its hard to truly engage and like her. Maybe Burton didn’t really know her purpose in this film.
But that’s nothing in comparison to The Dark Knight‘s Rachael Dawes, played in this film by Maggie Gylenhall picking up where Katie Holmes left off in Batman Begins. While there was chemistry, and a lot of it, between Basinger and Keaton in Batman ’89, chemistry is practically nonexistent between Gylenhall and her co-star Christian Bale. These are supposed to be two people that grew up together that have always loved each other deep down but have never really been able to get together. In Begins, you get that from Katie Holmes. You can almost see the electricity between them, you can almost feel the sexual tension radiating out of them. But in Dark Knight, it just seems awkward and, at times, flat. Maybe I’m just comparing Gylenhall unfairly to her predecessor, but at no point did I get the sense that she loved Bruce Wayne, or even had the smallest of feelings for him, and that really makes the character pointless.
If it was just that, maybe I wouldn’t have too much of a problem with Rachael Dawes. But honestly, what is her purpose in this movie? She doesn’t really do anything, she’s just there as a device to advance the plot. It seems like she was purely but there so they could easily explain other elements of plot, and that’s it. She suffers, she dies….and nothing else. While she had a purpose in Begins, I genuinely struggle to find one for her in The Dark Knight, and though Burton’s take on Vicki Vale is flawed and inconsistent, she does have a purpose besides being in need of constant rescuing.
Winner: Batman ’89
Now I can’t help but shake the feeling there’s someone I’ve missed out. Someone important. Someone….chaotic.
Did you really think I wasn’t going to get to this? Let’s put a smile on that face.
The Joker
Yin and Yang. Sherlock Holmes and Professor Moriarty. Harry Potter and Lord Voldermort.
Batman and The Joker.
Of all the costumed heroes and comic book franchises Batman easily has the best assembly of villains. The Clown Prince Of Crime is the most iconic, enduring and famous of all the members of Batman’s Rouge Gallery and naturally with every new take of Batman in the media there is a new take of The Joker. In Batman ‘89 Mr. J was given to Jack Nicholson, who quite simply ran away with the role. When he was on screen he didn’t so much as grab your attention as get up in your face and made you notice him. He was playful, he was silly, he was menacing and manic when he needed to be. He was easily the best thing about the movie and it’s very easy to see why his version is so endearing and often cited as the definitive performance.
But even though its fun performance, I have a real problem with it: it’s not The Joker to me, it’s just Jack Nicholson. Jack Nicholson in a purple suit and white face paint. Yes he’s fun and entertaining but it really doesn’t strike me as any different from the Jack Nicholson we’ve seen in films like One Flew Over The Cuckoo’s Nest, As Good As It Gets and even Anger Management. As much as I love Jack, he only really seems to play himself. That does work for The Joker in many ways but it really made it difficult to watch him as The Joker. Towards the end, during the climactic showdown, Jack finally turned into The Joker, executing his “number one guy” Bob for no real reason and dancing with an unwilling Vicki Vale on the roof of the church while armed thugs are all around them. It was fantastically insane and menacing and stood out to me as a true Joker moment: the perfect blend of intimidation and fun.
But besides that moment, to me it just isn’t the Joker. Yes, Nicholson is a blast to watch and is very fun but that’s just the problem: in the 20 years since the last movie incarnation (joyfully performed by Caesar Romero), there had been little to no change in how the character was presented. In both Batman ‘89 and Batman ‘69 The Joker is more or less taken literally and played up as a goofy prankster. While Tim Burton does add some flavour with the poisonous products killing Gotham’s citizens at random it still is very much played up as a fun-lover guy with a few screws loose, and for me it never truly intimidates, with the exception of the moonlight serenade and, of course, the mirror scene.
And then we have Heath Ledger. There has been a lot of fierce debate about the version of The Joker we see in The Dark Knight. There have been many arguments as to whether or not he was better than Jack, or that Jack was hands down the definitive Joker and this is no more than an imitation. There is also the opinion that had Heath Ledger not have died before the movie’s release, he would not have received a posthumous Academy Award for the role.
I will say this up front: Heath Ledger’s Joker is damn good. Is it the interpretation? The definitive rendition? That’s subject to debate. Personally speaking my favourite version of The Joker is neither Ledger’s nor Nicholson’s, but Mark Hamil’s (Hamil voiced the character for nearly two decades in various media, including Arkham City), so for me it’s a non-issue, but for other Bat-fans worldwide its either Jack or Heath. I have stated what I like and what I don’t like about Jack’s. Re-reading that, it seems as though I was more or less stating that I disliked it, but that is not true at all, I love watching it and I don’t think I will ever be able to sit through Nicholson yelling “HE STOLE MY BALOONS!” without howling with laughter. It’s just, however good Jack Nicholson was in the role, the memory of it fades away the second Heath Ledger steps in front of the camera.
Ledger’s Joker is just flat out insane. He murders, or spares the occasionally hapless victim’s life, completely at random, and every single action he does seems both pre-meditated and completely made up on the spot. As he states to Harvey Dent as he is lying in hospital (because of The Joker himself), does he really look like a guy with a plan?
Yes he does. He plans out everything, and then reorganizes over and over, telling each thug he hired different things and ultimately leaving himself to be the sole survivor. And what does he gain from it? Nothing really. He actually burns his accumulated wealth at one point, and later states that he just does things….just because. That is The Joker right there: a walking, talking random act of violence.
Also worth noting is the way he interacts with his victims. Take the scar story. It changes every time he says it, but each time it is said in a completely believable and impassioned way that both sound like the true reason. Is there a real reason? Does it really matter? While it comes across as Joker just messing with his targets, I’ve always seen it as a great reflection on how his mind works. The story might change every time because he remembers it differently each time. His methods and actions may change at random because his mind works at random. Or is that simply all performance from him too? This is why I prefer Heath Ledger’s Joker. Whereas you can understand Jack Nicholson’s actions and motivations, and follow his path as a linear story, Ledger’s constantly fluctuates between skittish and methodical. At the exact same time. That is not something you can easily pull off as an actor, yet Ledger makes it look so effortless. Another thing worth noting is his explanation as to why he uses knives to kill people. He says you can savour all the little final moments of someone in their death throws, understand their true natures. He takes genuine joy and pleasure in killing. Who in the hell does that?
A psychopath. Ledger’s Joker is a Class-A psychotic. As I said, Jack Nicholson’s Joker is so much fun but it’s extremely one note. Ledger’s is textured, crazy, scary, fun in places and a horrible human being with absolutely no regard for human life. And where as Jack Nicholson’s crimes are based upon what he himself wants, be it Vicki Vale on his arm or being more popular than Batman, Heath Ledger’s is simply an agent of chaos, destroying lives, criminal empires and even hospitals purely for kicks. That is just flat out horrifying. And that is why, in my mind, Ledger tops Nicholson.
Winner: The Dark Knight
Now you may be thinking that is all the important characters discussed, on to the next subject. But no, we’re not done just yet. There is one more character that is absolutely essential to the Batman mythos: Bruce Wayne himself.
Bruce Wayne
It would be far too easy to cast aside the character of Bruce Wayne aside as unimportant. Those that do that miss the entire point of Batman, and more importantly, why he is who he is.
Bruce Wayne is a character just as important as The Dark Knight himself. It was, after all, Bruce’s resolve and determination that resulted in Batman existing, and without Wayne’s cunning instincts and skills, Batman simply wouldn’t be Batman. And while Batman is indeed his true self, Bruce Wayne is always on hand as a public mask when he needs to be, creating alibis and opportunities as Gotham’s Most Eligible Bachelor.
While Keaton quite simply nailed Batman, the same sadly cannot be said for his take on Wayne himself. Batman ’89‘s take on the Billionaire Playboy came across as very naive and shy, and in one scene just downright goofy. For those of you wondering the scene I meant, I am of course talking about the scene where Bruce goes to see Vicki Vale at her apartment, promptly followed by The Joker and a few thugs. While Joker is busy trying to court Vale in the main room, we actually do get to see Keaton’s Wayne plan an exit strategy. We see the World’s Greatest Detective in action using that brain of his.
But it’s completely and utterly ruined when, in trying to draw the Joker’s ire, he grabs a fire poker and shouts “LET’S GET NUTS!” at him. I’m sorry, but any credibility Keaton had as Wayne vanished in that instance for me. And in order to sell the idea that Bruce Wayne isn’t Batman, Wayne needs to be the man Gotham expects of him: a disinterested, carefree socialite. While Keaton certainly had the disinterested aspect, his Wayne was too quiet, too shy and too insular. If anything, his quiet, shifty mannerisms and absenteeism would only add fuel to the fire that Bruce Wayne and Batman are on in the same.
Christian Bale’s take in The Dark Knight, however, delivered that. For me, that is exactly how I picture Bruce when I read the comic books: suave and arrogant, maintaining both an air of entitlement and indifference to the world around him beyond leggy women. At least, that is how he presents himself. In reality, Bale’s Bruce Wayne is constantly conflicted between his quest for justice and his desire to no longer have to be Batman. He spends the majority of the movie emphasizing the importance of Harvey Dent in Gotham, seeing him as a way out of the world he has created for himself. He also uses his public persona, and what’s expected by him by the tabloids and general public, to his advantage. During a party he hosts for Dent at his Penthouse, he swans in late with some random beauty on his arm, and later swans off into a “panic room” when the Joker arrives so he can change into Batman. It comes as no surprise to anyone at the party. That is exactly the kind of thing Wayne needs to do in order to detract attention away from the idea that he might be Batman. And that is something I feel Keaton’s version fails at.
Now, I do have an issue with both of these interpretations. In both Batman ’89 and The Dark Knight, Bruce spends a significant amount of time considering hanging up the cape and cowl for good, purely because of a woman he has feelings for. I can kind of understand the logic in Dark Knight, as Rachael Dawes is somebody he has been in love with all his life. But Vicki Vale? Somebody he meets at a party and then later sleeps with? He’d give up the promise he made about making sure nobody ever has to go through what he did for a woman who has been in his life for all of five minutes? I’m sorry, but what in hell is that? That’s just lazy storytelling. Just because the majority of big blockbuster movies invariably has a love interest story attached, it doesn’t mean you can just throw up anything and have it make sense. Batman is perhaps the world’s biggest case of Post-Traumatic Stress Disorder and in no way is it plausible that all of that would be given up just because a woman came along. If it was meant to be played up as if Bruce was lying to himself that he could give it up, like an alcoholic or drug addict, then I would actually forgive and even like that kind of narrative, but neither movie presents it as anything over than he wants to hang it up because he’s in love.
With that side issue rant over and done with, I return to the original comparison. Whereas Keaton’s Wayne is simply shy and coy, and often reclusive, Bale’s is a cocky, self indulgent and outgoing aristocrat (and thankfully, he doesn’t shout). For me, he’s just far more believable as a billionaire playboy.
Winner: The Dark Knight
Gotham City
Batman and the world of Batman isn’t just about the characters, the setting is equally as important. Gotham City isn’t simply a location or a backdrop, it’s a character unto itself. It’s a violent and unforgiving place, which circumstances so dire they directly result in things like the murder of Thomas and Martha Wayne. Gotham City doesn’t just play home to Batman, it created him.
In Batman ‘89, Gotham is dark and brooding, a constant Gothic presence, with elements of Noir and Neoclassical. Quite simply, it’s the Gotham you see in all the books. All of the dark and sinister textures and undercurrents are there in Tim Burton’s interpretation.
The Gotham of The Dark Knight, however, doesn’t have that feel to it. Its bright, its clean…its just like every other major American city. There is no sense that this city is a criminal hotspot. I understand that Christopher Nolan is trying to ground his films in realism, but so long as you are doing a film about a man dressing up as and calling himself a bat, you simply cannot have true realism. And while the Gotham of Batman Begins does show it in the same vein as Burton’s, TDK just doesn’t. One thing Tim Burton has going for him is his visual style, and in Batman ‘89 he was perhaps at the top of his visual game.
Winner: Batman ‘89
Gadgets
One of the fun parts of Batman is we get to see him use a small army of self created gadgets at his disposal as he fights his one man war on crime. From Shurikens in the shape of a bat to private planes, and from grappling guns to…bat shark repellent…there has always been something on hand to assist the Caped Crusader no matter the occasion.
Batman ‘89 has a pretty nifty assortment, even though the gadgets and technically wizardly is kept to a minimum. The iconic Grappling Gun is here, as is the definitive and iconic Bat mobile (sorry, Adam West fans, but its true), and towards the end we even get a Batwing. The Batwing serves no actual purpose but my word does it look great.
Now, this category is about to become extremely one sided and unfair, purely because of the advances in technology between that film and The Dark Knight, but nonetheless, the sheer amount of gadgets in this film is staggering.
From what I noticed, we had EMP charges, explosive gel, a Batman costume with some kind of taser style security in case anyone tires to unmask him, a sonar system built into the cowl, and a gigantic tank like vehicle that then discharges parts to form a perfectly functional bike. Q Branch would be proud. The Dark Knight wins this one on volume alone, but that Tumbler to Batpod moment is just straight up awesome.
Winner: The Dark Knight
Music
With every iconic interpretation of Batman that has come, there have been equally iconic scores and music to accompany them. The 1960’s show had a catchy jingle at the start of every episode which multiple generations of people recognise instantly upon hearing, which has set a precedent for everything Batman since.
Let’s not beat around the bush on this one. Batman ‘89’s soundtrack is the benchmark and standard against everything is measured against. Danny Elfman’s main theme is simply a near perfect encapsulation of the Batman franchise in musical form. The majority of the score neatly underpins the corresponding scenes, despite being occasionally over the top, but that is something of a trademark with Elfman and simply something that is unavoidable. It leaps out at you and demands focus, instantly drawing you in. When you hear the opening moments of the main theme of this movie, you know exactly who and what it is, and that is something often overlooked in movies.
Danny Elfman
That is by no means to say Hans Zimmer’s score for The Dark Knight doesn’t stand up well against it. I am a big fan of Zimmer’s soundtracks and with TDK he created a fantastically dark and brooding musical journey through ought the film, the score in places actually making you far tenser during the dramatic and hostile moments. But while it is good, even great for the majority, there is no defining characteristic or iconic piece that stands out to me. Yes there are recurring themes and motifs but it’s not something that you take with you and remember long after seeing the movie, whereas with Elfman’s score it does stay with you.
Hans Zimmer
Now, there is one thing that needs mention in this section. The big purple suited elephant in the corner. I am of course referring to Prince and his companion soundtrack for Batman ‘89. It’s just woeful and forgettable to me, with no real spark of energy like the kind you find in Prince’s more celebrated material. Even worse is the fact that the songs feel awkwardly forced into the movie (look up the art gallery scene if you disagree with me) and as such simply distract from the proceedings, which is the biggest cardinal sin possible for a movie soundtrack. Yet for however dull and lifeless Prince’s contributions are, Danny Elfman’s are the polar opposite, with dynamic and catchy hooks and themes throughout.
As stated, I love Hans Zimmer’s work. But until he can break out a thematic score as enduring and endearing as Danny Eflman’s, if not greater, this category will always have the same end result.
Winner: Batman ‘89
Source Material
There is nothing wrong with taking something and interpreting it your own way. Tim Burton proved this extremely well with his takes on the Batman universe. But this entire article has been based on how true they are to the source material, so it was inevitable that we got down to exactly what when into these two films.
On the surface of things, Batman ‘89 doesn’t rely on any source material besides the extreme basics. It has the characters and the setting and that’s it, off to Burtonland it goes. But its not that simple. While Burton has freely admitted to being very much against comic books, he did look at some of them as a guideline. There is no bigger influence in this movie than Alan Moore’s The Killing Joke, released a year prior in 1988. There is actually a decent amount lifted from this, namely the origin of The Joker himself and even the passage in the book where the Joker shoots and cripples Commissioner Gordon’s daughter (albeit heavily modified as a scene in Vicki Vale’s apartment). For a very long time I assumed that was the one and only comic book influence, but in actual fact it’s one of two. WhatCulture’s Comics Editor Jamie Slough once told me during a discussion about the movie franchise as a whole that if you watch Batman ‘89 as if it was set in the style and time frame of the early books (aka The Golden Age of Comic Books), it actually makes a lot more sense thematically. The pulp, noir and gothic overtones, when looked at from this perspective, no longer come across as stylistic choices for the sake of looking different, but actually serve as a very faithful interpretation of the original version of The Bat-Man, as he was then called.
The Dark Knight takes its cues from a few bits and pieces, but no more prominent that Jeph Lobe and Tim Sale’s The Long Halloween. Itself a spiritual sequel to Frank Miller’s Year One, it was only logical that since Batman Begins drew heavily from Year One, The Dark Knight in turn looked to its successor. The entire Harvey Dent and Two Face story is taken from that book, with Rachel Dawes in place of his wife Gilda, and there is even a continuation of the Falcone crime family storyline with the appearance of Sal Maroni, a supporting character in Halloween as well. We also have traces of one off story Joker’s Millions (modified and for one scene only but its an interesting story to take material from nonetheless), and even traces of The Killing Joke, in the sense that Joker at times sees himself as a part of a whole, with Batman as the other half. There are also small but noteworthy references, such as the existence of Arkham Asylum For The Criminal Insane, Commissioner Gordon’s wife Barbara and their children James and Barbara (a noteworthy villain and the most famous Batgirl in the books, respectively), and of course the inclusion of Wayne Enterprises CEO Lucius Fox as an ally. Its this subtle attention to detail that gives Christopher Nolan the edge.
Winner: The Dark Knight
Overall Experience
While this article has been focused on the films attention to how faithful they are to their sources, I would be complete remiss in my duty writing this article if I didn’t discuss how the films stand up as movies in their own right. Taking people’s favourite and beloved books and turning them into a big budget film is risky business but overall the audience will be satisfied if you give them something that entertains them for 90 minutes.
Batman ‘89 is a very entertaining movie. It has humour, a great visual style and good character acting. The Gotham city of this movie sets tone throughout and the story has a traditional three part arc with a great climax, with a great soundtrack to boot (mostly). But no matter how good it is when the film is in its stride, the pacing leaves a lot to be desired. There are so many moments where the continuation of the story is brought to a grinding halt with a scene featuring Bruce Wayne awkwardly trying to talk to Vicki Vale, or random moments where The Joker is just…being The Joker. Its not that they are boring, its just they don’t really serve much purpose to the story.
Take for example the art gallery scene. When briefly summed up, it sounds great: Joker tricks Vicki Vale into meeting her in an art gallery, kills everyone there but her, tries to kidnap her and is then foiled by Batman. When looked at it like that, it sounds great. But it takes forever to get to the point because we are treated to an extremely goofy scene where Joker and his crew splatter paint on various works to the sounds of Prince. Suddenly we went from Batman to MTV and then back again. Its moments like that that take me out of the story and makes it difficult for me to take what is overall a good film seriously.
I also have a similar problem with The Dark Knight. It’s not that there are pacing problems or unnecessary scenes, as every little thing in this film has a purpose which is later revealed, it’s that at 152 minutes this movie is a butt numbing experience. Even Peter Jackson realised that 3 hours is a long time no matter how good the movie you’ve done is.
But with that said, I was never at any point bored or wishing the film would hurry things up at any time. The story is executed slowly and methodically, racking up the tension and the stakes throughout. Batman ‘89 was building towards the final showdown throughout the movie. The Dark Knight builds on one thing, executes it, and then moves onto another big moment that it had set up in the background. It almost feels like two films. The Joker being arrested and then interrogated feels like the logical conclusion, but then we get a whole heap of chaos thrown into the mix for another hour. It might be long, but is never at any point tedious.
There is one interesting argument an acting colleague once raised to me, however. The colleague in question, Harry Harding, is also a big Batman fan. We were both very much looking forward to this movie. When I saw it I got in touch with him asking him his thoughts and he pretty much went to town on it, calling it a comic book rip off of Michael Mann’s Heat. He went to great lengths to point out the structural similarities and therefore wrote the film off. I can see his argument, I agree with it, and the fact that Christopher Nolan himself cited Heat as a major influence when developing this film certainly doesn’t help matters. But that doesn’t take away from the fact that Dark Knight is an extremely entertaining film, clichéd dialogue and Batman yelling every single word notwithstanding. And at no point in those 3 hours did I feel bored, which is sadly more than I can say for Batman ‘89.
Winner: The Dark Knight
And there we have it. If we were to weight it all up in terms of statistics from the results of this article, The Dark Knight would be the winner. I know that if I was given the choice to watch either film, I would pick TDK over Batman ‘89 every time. But does the fact that The Dark Knight is more true to its source material than its predecessor make Batman ‘89 a lesser movie? Does that make Batman ‘89 a bad movie? Absolutely not. In preparation for this article I re-watched both films back to back and was reminded of how fun Tim Burton’s first foray into Gotham City is. Its slick, its stylish and its very entertaining. Its everything a big budget movie in 1989 needed to be and is a great take on its subject’s mythos. Its also a very creative take on the original comic strips created by Bob Kane and Bill Finger all those years ago.
But for me, The Dark Night is the better movie. Of all the Batman films, it is my absolute favourite aside from Paul Dini and Bruce Timm’s Mask Of The Phantasm, the first of several feature films spun out of the duo’s highly acclaimed Batman: The Animated Series (later titled The New Adventures Of Batman & Robin). It has the chaos, the wit, the danger, the characters, all the best things in the comic books and graphic novels are in that movie. And its execution, while by no means perfect, is fantastic. Both films are wonderful and worth repeated viewings, but in my opinion, The Dark Knight is quite simply the better Batman movie. On a side note, Mask Of The Phantasm and the later Dini/Timm feature Return Of The Joker are two of the best Batman films I have ever seen besides the two I have been talking about in this article, and well worth watching as well.
And thus concludes my two cents on one of the internet’s most intense debates. As I have said, this is purely my own opinion, and by all means leave your own opinions and thoughts in the comments section below. I know that there are a lot of people out there who will both agree and disagree on the various things I’ve said. But the thing to remember is these two films have brought Batman a larger fan base more than any other endeavor, including the universally celebrated Arkham video game series (written by Paul Dini…I think you can guess who my favourite Bat scribe is by now). And that is why Batman fans should love and respect both equally. That and the fact they’re both great fun.
Just don’t get me started on all the problems I have with Batman Returns.
And that goes double for Batman & Robin!
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93 Comments
very interesting article. i must say you covered everything very fairly and with detail. top stuff.
i myself prefer burtons only by a fraction. bales voice did mess up that batman experience for me a bit.
wicked article.
Thank you very much!
Completely agree with 99% of this article. I may add that the 1% disagreed point is that Aaron Eckhart’s performance in TDK is the highlight of the movie, although Eckhart’s Dent/Two-face is the performance of his career (so far), nothing can beat Heath Ledger’s Joker. All in all, an excellent article. Well done.
Thank you. Maybe I just prefer Two Face as I prefer him as a villain!
You had me up till the point you referred the Batwing to a “Bat Plane”
Fixed. Can’t believe I forgot the name for it…
And to be fair, you really can’t compare Jack and Heath. They are playing two different Jokers. Jack’s is the 30s and 40s Joker. Basically a sadistic criminal with a flair for the dramatic. Heath’s is a force of nature. Both had their qualities but are two different to compare fairly.
I think you can compare the two jokers cinematically. Jack Nicholson’s Joker was very good, but that was Jack Nicholson playing Jack Nicholson with face paint on. He was brilliant don’t get me wrong, but Heath Ledger’s portrayal was something completely new and out of anybody’s expectations. Heath’s real life persona is nothing like his Joker. As far as acting goes and how they presented themselves on screen, Ledger wins.
My point in the joker part is, in my opnion, joker is not the chaos incorporation, he is in fact a sadistic claw, hes name is joker after all…
Its just see the arkhan city, asylum adaptitation…
I see this adaptation very good, and something between the two…
I agree, that they can change the joker to a less… joking or silly villian…
But not a chaos for chaos villian, the escensse of the joker is the joking part…
“And that is why, in my mind, Ledger tops Nicholson.
Winner: Batman ‘89″
huh
It’s a small hiccup and will be amended shortly. The winner for that category is Dark Knight.
Fixed now. Total goof on my part. I must have been tired when I finished that part of the article.
I don’t agree with the Batman category…I guess my question is: what the Hell is Batman supposed to sound like, a cartoon (animated series), Adam West? I mean Bale speaks about being in the suit as like being an animal, so his voice mimicks that rage. Because there is a significant difference between Bale’s voice overall from Begins to the Dark Knight, I wonder if it was meant at all to be the only ‘tell’ we get as an audience in seeing just how enraged he is; otherwise, he is a perfect examle of a completely disciplined person. I completely agree about the Burton Batman’s pentient for killing; he kills as well in Batman Returns…all the cool Gothic scenery and mood in the world doesn’t upsell Burton’s version over Nolan’s. Personally, watching Burton’s versions wants the kid in me to want to be Batman, but Nolan’s version gets me to want to be a better person.
It’s cool, its all down to individual preferences. I’ve always been preferential to Kevin Conrow so I find shouting and gruff speaking a bit grating but thats just me.
Interesting point about kid v adult, I never looked at it like that before.
FINALLY!!! SOMEONE WHO UNDERSTANDS WHY HE HAS THAT VOICE!!! THANK YOU!!!
I too agree with the voice part, in that I don’t mind Bale’s gravely voice when portraying Batman. Captain America, Iron Man, Spider-man, Green Lantern, Superman etc. all use their normal voices. Masks or no mask, your friends, family, or even people you interract with on a somewhat regular basis, would know who it is just based off voice. I like Keaton and Conroy, but you could still distinguish who’s voice that was if you were around them enough, and with advances in tech. one could play with the audio to match it. Whereas the gravely voice is completely unrecognizable even if you knew Bruce Wayne.
I honestly never had an issue with it or found it odd when watching TDK, and i’m a huge longtime fan of Batman as well. That’s my personal opinion on the matter anyways. Great article though, agreed on just about everything. (Thought Rachel surved more of a purpose than Vicki personally, because at the end of the day Rachel did push plot forward and had direct repurcussions whereas Vicki didn’t) (Prefer Bale over Keaton as Batman)
I thought Bale’s Batman voice was good, obviously he needs to disguise it and when you’re a criminal and all your friends are being ruthlessly taken out one by one, it would be a bit more intimidating. ALso, it’s referenced in the books; for instance, in Knightfall, when JPV is about to become the new Batman, Robin mentions it.
/geek out over
Yeah the voice is often referenced in the books. I just wasn’t expecting….that.
Excellent article Alex, you clearly know your Batman and have a real passion not only for the character but for the many mediums in which he’s appeared. As a brand new contributor to WhatCulture! I’m pleased to feel a certain responsibility to reach out to a colleague and also contribute to what you’ve clearly established on this site as a great and worthwhile conversation.
As another aspiring writer, I hope you’ll appreciate and not take offense when I say that you obviously have a knack for good structure when writing and demonstrate a very dynamic voice, however, there are a few minor typos that if corrected would yeild an even greater piece.
In terms of the content, first of all, this was a real pleasure to read. It brought me back to my childhood in which Burton’s Batman looms large as a source of many happy memories. I have to agree with Matt though where he very aptly expressed Batman ’89 as that which one’s innerchild aspires to be whereas TDK resonates profoundly with you as an adult.
I also enjoyed your take on Bale’s Batman voice because most criticisms of it were baseless and merely ridiculed a surface impression it left on many audiences whereas your criticism very reasonably argued what Bale’s rendition potentially lost by appearing over the top. I must side with Matt and Nick however in that although there was a lot of yelling in TDK, it took place at moments where I feel it was warranted. Also, when compared to Begins, one should realize that the extra gravely voice isn’t without merrit – it serves to mask Wayne’s voice – a crucial aspect of the disguise and one that I prefer over Keaton’s near-whisper. Your exploration of Bruce Wayne was also excellent and I agree 100% except for the “LETS GET NUTS” line – that always stuck with me as an example of Bruce’s courage and resourcefulness even without his cape and cowl.
The only other element of your case I can’t completely abide by is your take on the love interests. Although I very much agree they feel generally out of place in pretty much any Batman film, and truly enjoyed your critique of Bassinger/Vale, I think there is something more to be said of Dawes. Yes, there was very little chemistry between Bale and Gylenhall compared to Holmes, and yes she primarily served more or less as a plot device in TDK, but the character exudes such courage, independence, and moral strength that she definitely trumps Vicki Vale’s damsel in distress, despite Bassinger’s spot on execution.
Aside from the above mentioned points, I believe that even if I did not whole heartedly agree with every point you made, they were all very well argued and very much appreciated, especially the section devoted to The Joker. This article handled a huge debate with incredible depth and efficiency and most importantly, made my day job go by that much more swiftly. Overall a real success you should be genuinely proud of.
I REALLY hope I haven’t overstepped my bounds here, and if so, please don’t hesitate to let me know so I may sincerely apologize. I just am a great fan of what WhatCulture! does and feel it is a publication which deserves significant exposure and I’m hoping that some lively interaction among its contributors, as well as its readers, might help spark that.
Thank you so much for all the advice and offering your own take on the films. Hopefully all the typos are fixed…hopefully. My response would be far more lengthy and articulate but its been a long day and I need some sleep.
And don’t be silly, you overstepped no bounds whatsoever. I’m always in need of constructive criticism!
I sincerely apprechiate all the comments. You are all welcome to agree and disagree, I must stress that it is all my own feelings and naturally there will be those that disagree with my views. I have no problem with that whatsoever.
As for the problems, including the wrong term for the Batwing, will be ammended as soon as possible.
And Joe, thank you for the advice, its much aprechiated and much needed!
Agree with most but not sure why everyone harps on the voice. Of course Batman is going to have a vocal distortion chip over his larynx to disguise his voice – the fact that it didn’t sound that great kept with the realism of the new version. If he doesnt distort it then Gordon + Dent would have IDed him for sure.
I just find it very distracting. But its just my view, its not like its gospel!
The problem with Rachel isn’t so much Maggie’s performance as it is Nolan’s inability to write women. The character exists as a plot point, not as a person. The only reason she is in the film is to give Dent motivation to become Two Face. It’s a shame – Maggie is a capable and sexy actress. She was let down by some awful dialogue and clunky direction.
In terms of music score – nothing beats Elfman’s work on Batman Returns. It’s a tragic, operatic masterpiece.
Chris didn’t write it, it was his brother Johnathan and David Goyer who were responsible for that, but that doesn’t mean you’re wrong about that.
She needed to be there because Gilda was such a big part of The Long Halloween and it would have been so lazy to just make Dent wake up with a split personality disorder one day.
As for Elfman…his Returns score is good but moments like when Selina Kyle snaps in her apartment the music seems so over the top I can’t like it. I’m not an Elfman fan, truth be told.
Goyer and Chris came up with the story, Jonathan and Chris wrote the screenplay. So I blame the Nolan brothers.
I’d argue that Dent pretty much does wake up with a sudden split personality. The motivation is unconvincing and underdeveloped. I found the whole Two Face bit rushed, it felt tacked on.
You’re exactly right about the over the topness of Returns.Pure German expressionism, it’s great. Not much of an Elfman fan either though. He did some wonderful stuff in the early to mid 90s, but has since become a bland parody of himself. Shame.
Mistakes edited, but there may be a typo still in there. I suck at spelling.
I totally agree with your article. To add one more thing would be batmans fighting style. To me batman 89′ looked looked like a boxer hopping around like a kid who has to pee. TDK batman actually looks like he’s mastered more than one style of martial arts like he had in the comics.
Great in-depth article. This is why I regularly go on this site.
I agree with everything said. However, I preferred by far the Danny Elfman score, and it’s true that Bale’s voice is a bit OTT.
What really annoyed me was when Batman was alone with Morgan Freeman’s character, (one of the few people to know that Bruce is Batman), but he still puts on the “I’ve drank too much vodka” voice, as if Bruce thinks Morgan is gonna forget momentarily that he is batman.
I would have thought that scenes when Batman is alone with people aware of his secret, he could go back to his normal Bruce voice. Just to add realism.
I actually didn’t mind Bale’s voice in TDK.Watching the 1989 film- it feels a bit too cartoony for me now. That said TDK was extremely depressing and Burton’s film left you feeling hopeful and excited for the next adventure.
I love ledger as the joker beyond any description, bit I think it is unfair to rank eclhart as even the second best performance in the film. Gary oldman as gordon is nothing short ofbrilliant and deserved an oscar nod almost as much as the flasher joker.
Sorry to do this bro, but you spelled a famous name wrong. It Mark Hamill, not Hammil. But I agree, nothing tops his performance as the Joker. Nothing.
*It’s* lol
Taken care of ;) Thank you!
I have to disagree with you with regard to the best batman. Bale is better by far.
Firstly I’ll start with the voice. Poeple such as you, who criticise Bale’s voice, are rather stupid. Its easy to sit on your backside in a comfy cinema and sneer, but at the end of the day if you were on your own in a dark alleyway, being pulverised by a 6 foot 2 figure dressed in black, then you WOULD be scared of his growlinng voice, and don’t tell me you wouldn’t. His voice may not seem scary to you when you’re sat safely at home or in the cinema, if you were in the same shoes as one of those villains who have to face Batman, then you would find that voice VERY intimidating. Growling is a primal expression of aggression, and when it is coupled with a menacing black outfit and huge physical stature it works very well.
The growlling is far superior to the non-threatening whispers used by Keaton.
Secondly, Bale has the bigger physical stature. In the Batman comics Batman is Huge, and the only huge, physically intimidating Batman to date is Bale. Keaton manages to capture much of the essence of Batman due to his excellent acting and he pulls of his role fairly well, but I would give Bale the edge.
When you add Bale’s size and the impact of his voice it is clear that his Batman is a “force of nature” whereas Keaton’s Batman, although very good, is far less menacing.
You pose some interesting points but I stopped taking you seriously the moment you said I’m stupid just because I don’t have the same oppinion as you.
The point is that we ARE sitting in a comfy cinema, not alone in a dark alleyway being pulverised. It doesn’t seem scary when I’m sat safely at home – in fact it seems rather laughable.
Surely it matters more how the film is perceived by the viewer?
Totally dumb point.
Removing that comment because I was too tired to notice it was from sombody else. I shouldn’t check the article when I’m crabby…
Uhh, Alex, I was sticking up for you. Reread what I said.
Frank: My bad, Thats why I shouldn’t quickly skim when I have 2 minutes to spare at Uni. My appologies!
Thanks for all the oppinions and counter arguments, its very fun seeing all the different views on these films. Also kinda cool that Bale’s voice is getting love, even if it got none from me! Keep it coming, guys.
If only there could be some kind of spectacular hybrid of batman 89 and TDK. My god wouldnt that be the best thing ever!?
My god….quick, get in touch with Warner Brothers! This needs to happen!
Im allmost 100% certain its an idea nobody has ever concidered, thus making me some kind of visionary offcourse
Great article, Alex! However, I do have to disagree with one point, and that is about Batman’s disregard for human life. As you noted in your section about source material, Burton’s Batman draws in part on the Golden Age comics. In that period, Batman did kill criminals. A couple of examples: In Detective Comics #27, a criminal falls into a vat of acid, and Batman says it is “[a] fitting end for one of his kind.” Also, in Batman #1, he guns down criminals with a machine gun mounted on the Batwing (then called the Batplane). Admittedly, it is shortly thereafter that Batman becomes less homicidal, but the point remains that he was originally written as a killer (as was appropriate for the time he was introduced), and the argument could be made that Burton is simply being true to this early source material.
Anyway, I found your overall take to be very well thought-out, and enjoyed reading it.
Thats a very good point and the only time I’ve ever seen a justifiable reason. It still makes me uncomfortable to see but lest we forget, Bat-Man DID have a gun…
Awesome article – you made some very interesting points. I’ve find it intriguing how Bale’s voice divided audiences. I didn’t pay much attention to it until people started pointing it out after Batman Begins. For me it’s just part of the character – all rage, no compassion. Plus, I think it’s necessary in Nolan’s film as Batman communicates a lot more than he did in either of Burton’s films. It stands out, but at the same time you never really see Bruce Wayne at all in Bale’s interpretation – when he puts on the suit he is Batman through and through. Keaton’s Batman just didn’t talk. You never felt the dual personality beyond the cape and cowl. Just my two cents. But I full hardedly agree that Batman the Animated Series is the best interpretation of Bats by far!
Great job!
Thank you very much! I love the fact that theres a lot of love for Bale’s voice, even if it doesn’t sit well with me.
Maybe we need to try and convince Kevin Conroy to don the cape and cowl for a live action feature. Dark Knight Returns maybe. THAT would be something else.
A fanboy can dream, can’t he? ;)
Some great debate going on here, Whatculture definitely upping their game. Thanks for the fun read :)
Never underestimate the love people have for Batman!
Thank you very much =]
Although Kevin Conroy will always ‘be’ Batman to me, I can understand how Bale used a growl that would detract anyone from even remembering what his voice is like.
For anyone who’d like a laugh as to what Batman’s voice might have sounded like, watch this rather witty parody of how Christian Bale tried lots of different ones while ‘in the role’ – it almost makes you appreciate his growl more!
http://www.firstshowing.net/2011/watch-batman-tries-out-some-different-voices-to-intimidate-enemies/
As a follow up to my previous post. The people who think Bale’s voice is bad because the audience do not find it scary, do you also believe that Batman should not wear a mask because we (the audience) already know he is Bruce Wayne????
Why don’t you people realise that Just like the Mask, the Voice is NOT to scare the audience, it is to scare the bad guys and to disguise his voice.
To Frank, Alex and the rest – The Mask he wears, and the Growl he uses, all of this is to intimidate the criminals so WHO CARES if YOU find it scary or not???? As I pointed out earlier if you were a criminal you WOULD find it scary. so IT WORKS IN THE CONTEXT OF THE FILM. the voice SCARES the bad guys. So if it works in the context of the film, Why the hell are you criticizing it??????
(And by the way, with regard to my earlier comment, I was not calling anyone stupid, I was refering to the criticism of the voice, as stupid).
The mask is necessary because we have information the villains do not. Very different, and a disingenuous comparison.
The criticism isn’t that he disguises his voice. The criticism is that the voice Bale has adopted is laughable and OTT. I don’t think Nolan’s intention was for us to laugh, and in that respect he has failed. And as others have pointed out – the fact that he uses it even around people who know his true identity is ridiculous.
Voldemort, not Voldermort.
I know nothing about Batman, but you can probably tell who this is! He may be the Dark Lord.. but he deserves his name to be spelled correctly ;)
I’ll forgive you!
Other than you being a little bitch about bales voice like the rest of the batman fanboys out there, pretty descent article.
Wow, what a succinct and fair argument. This is the problem with the internet: everybody has balls behind a keyboard and none in the real world.
I don’t like Bales voice as Batman. Don’t agree? Fair enough. But at least I gave a reason, you’re just being an immature idiot.
…though I’m glad you liked the rest of it.
Its actually pretty cool that there is support and arguments for Bale’s voice, but I have to stress this was an opinion piece. If you disagree with me feel free to say so but try to have the communication skills and intelligence of someone over eight years old, because if you don’t you will come across as a colossal idiot.
I agree with a lot of what you said on both movies, even though I’m not a fan of the Christopher Nolan/Christian Bale Batman franchise. I prefer Keaton.
I too have an opinion on Keaton’s Bruce Wayne and his relationship with Vicki Vale. It’s true Keaton didn’t play him as a typically self-centered billionaire playboy, but instead, played Bruce Wayne like the Great Gatsby: by hosting fancy parties at his mansion to maintain his social standing among Gotham’s elite, all the while being the elusive host.
On top of that, he’s actually a social bumbler, which probably accounts for his inability to socialize with others, given his parents’ tragedy and its effect on him. Having said that, his absent-minded bumbling nature would never let people assume he’s Batman.
In fact, it’s only when he’s Batman that he’s utterly cool and confident and not a bumbler at all. So clearly, Tim Burton and Michael Keaton approached the character from a psychological standpoint, in that Keaton can naturally be two different people when wearing and not wearing the mask.
In terms of that outburst with the Joker at Vicki’s apartment, he was probably angry at being caught without his Batsuit and using that anger as a psychological ploy to save Vicki from the Joker.
As for Vicki Vale, I also wish that the relationship was expanded on more. Still, I think that Wayne falls in love with her, because she represents a sense of stability and harmony that he lacks, given his dual personality. Even Alfred pointed this out to him constantly in the movie.
If you think about it, Batman no longer takes his job personally at the end of the movie, because he’s avenged his parents’ death and has finally chosen to fight crime for selfless reasons, heeding only to the Bat Signal if he’s needed to step in. If anything, his need for revenge created the Joker, but his gradual shift in priorities, from personal revenge to saving the city from the Joker’s schemes, is what makes him become a hero at the end.
Believe it or not, Wayne and Vicki are still a couple in the first draft of BATMAN RETURNS, titled BATMAN 2.
Like I said, this is all an opinion.
Your opinions are fascinating and well thought out. Thank you very much for sharing them!
One more thing. If Batman ever killed in the first Michael Keaton movie, it was purely out of self-defense, almost like kill or be killed. In fact, Batman did kill in the old 1930s comics before Robin, again for self-defense.
If he “killed” the Joker at the end of the movie, it was a last resort and with all said and done, it’s a typical comic-book ending. They couldn’t have let the Joker live at that time, as they did in “THE DARK KNIGHT”.
Political correctness has an African, Moran Freeman, acting superior to Bruce Wayne in every scene. The notion that an African could be a scientific genius with a numinous aura is absurd, both in reality and in fiction.
We’re supposed to pay to see these movies?
Either you are very good at sarcasm or a class A vile human being. Lucious Fox is his superior when it comes to the technology he gives Bruce Wayne because he invented them, that simple.
It’s not political correctness. Lucius Fox was always black character. Who gives a damn anyway, the original Harvey Dent in Burton’s film was black and the 80s was definitely not a politically correct time.
I agree with much of this. I like how you say Gotham is a character as much as any of the others. That said, I would say the Gotham in the Dark Knight is better, but only when the one in Batman Begins is considered. That one was the underside of Gotham, filled with projects and slums as far as the eye can see. In the Dark Knight Rises, we got to see the better parts, which were still filled with crime and scary, but the better part regardless. Overall though, good job.
Great article. I agree with you on almost every aspect. Although I do have to say that I prefer Bale’s Batman to Keaton’s, if only slightly. They are both great performances, and both have moments of incredible intimidation. And, honestly, if you take out the “voice debate”, I think they both line up a little bit more.
But Bale wins for me, as I see Batman & Bruce Wayne as a total character. So while Keaton’s Batman might be a bit more visually dark and threatening, Bale’s interpretation as the “full character”, the training he went through, the sacrifices he makes for the city, add up to make his portrayal of Batman more rounded and complete. He comes off as more a hero, in my opinion. Also, all the killing that Keaton’s Batman does throughout the movie (and in Batman Returns) kind of tarnishes his Batman a bit.
Speaking of that, I don’t know if this has been pointed out in the comments, but besides killing the Joker and his henchman in the cathedral, Batman (in ’89) also kills a whole slew of Joker thugs when he remote control drives the Batmobile into the chemical factory and bombs the place near the climax.
Anyway, great article. Loved seeing all the aspects of both films being compared and contrasted.
Just for the record of Batman’s voice (and this being quoted from a user in a forum that says it as well as I could):
“…from the comics is 1993′s Batman #498, part 15 of Knightfall. This was the issue where Jean Paul Valley aka Azrael first becomes Batman following Bruce being crippled by Bane. Here is some advice Robin (Tim Drake) gives Jean Paul before they meet Commissioner Gordon on the roof of the GCPD headquarters: “Remember Paul – just stick to the shadows and put on that hoarse, grating voice Bruce uses.”
There’s also other indications that he uses a gruff voice, especially when first trying to figure out his Batman identity. Whether it’s exaggerated in Nolan’s films is debatable, but I definitely wouldn’t call it a flaw.
its not fair to compare TDK’s Harvey Dent to Batman’s, cause in ’89, Dent is only in in for like 5 minutes, while in TDK, he’s a major element of the film. same goes for Gordon.
A great amount of thought and effort has been used to pen down these points down. I don’t think that I have never seen a more comprehensive character by character comparison by far.
(Great work Alex!!!!)
But since I grew up with Burton’s Batman, it seemed more original to me. I was NOT a Batman fan of Adam West’s portrayal, instead his Batman made me want to turn away. Burton’s Batman was what brought me back.
He had a lot of thinking to do like creating the perfect Gotham City atmosphere (something which Nolan’s Gotham didn’t do)
To emphasize a point someone made there it seemed like Burton’s Batman was in an island in which only Batman was the Dark Knight.
Nolan on the other hand had nothing fantasy-like about his Gotham.
Burton had to make the transition from the comedy like West to the serious personality that Batman is supposed to be.
Wayne was a spoilt brat of a billionaire who could have hired others to do his thinking for him, that explains Keaton’s Wayne easily distracted and great at blending himself with his surroundings (He could have buffed up more for the role though!)
Bale on the other hand just stood out and if it wasn’t for that raspy (something stuck in my throat) voice of his, he would have easily been ID’d.
Burton actually led the way for Nolan to make those great movies, even though he had a weaker plot, lesser stories for character development and lesser gadgets but somehow he made up with great music, great Batmobile, great bat-suit and fantasy like atmosphere of Gotham.
Nolan had the advantage of better resources Burton’s films and better gadgets that his why his films are more of an epic thriller than a comic book adaptation.
Burton’s Batman could have learned to fight more,
Nolan’s Batman wins in the fight but Keaton had more expression in the eyes; dark and menacing!!!
The crappy films like Batman and Robin and Batman Forever don’t even deserve to be placed in the same category as these greats.
I just wrote what came to my mind and I’m sure my comment would not make proper sense but I just had to give my 2 cents
Great article! I really like keatons batman voice. Batman was much more intimidating when he was almost whispering. Bales batman was great, but very vocal. But hey, that’s just what I think with those two. Overall though, I reckon Kevin conroy is the best cause he has the deep voice like bale, but the intimidating whisper (sort of) of Keaton
I’m not sure if you’re still responding, Alex, as it’s been quite a while since you wrote this, but as I’m just reading this piece for the first time, I’d like to add my thoughts…
I actually agree with you *almost* completely. My two biggest objections are your assessment of Batman and Gotham City.
I also happen to be one of the people who liked Bale’s Batman voice… the only point I didn’t like it was his dialogue with the Joker when they were fighting on that building near the end. Part of it, of course was just bad writing. The lines were horrible (although I’d say the worst line in that scene was Morgan Freeman’s “See those bad guys up there?”… but this line proved that Freeman could narrate “See Spot Run” and it would be epic, because such a horribly written line was executed flawlessly by the man… so as bad as it was, it was still good). But Bale overdid it the worst here.
I actually appreciated his voice the most in the final showdown with Harvey Two-Face.
You have to remember that in TDK, the Joker beat Batman pretty badly both mentally and physically (not even close to what he’s going to face in TDKR with Bane, but still). By the time he managed to get to where Two-Face was holding Gordon and his family hostage, he was physically, mentally, and emotional beat. He had little, if anything, left in him. I think the voice showed this in the extreme. Bruce still had to disguise his voice because both Gordon and Dent knew what Bruce’s voice sounded like at that point; they would have figured it out on the spot.
The problem is, he was so tired, so beaten, that disguising his voice was hard. So he over-compensated. I really do believe that the nature of the voice in that scene was done on purpose to convey just where Bruce was mentally by that point. And yes, I do think we will get a similar voice in TDKR, when Bane first beats Bruce. It will likely start out with Bale using the voice as it was in his first appearance as Batman in Begins, but as the fight progresses, he will become more tired, and the voice will become more gravelly and grating, until he likely loses it completely and can only speak as Bruce, which will probably be right before Bane beats him (this is not a spoiler… it’s in the trailer: “when Gotham is ashes, you have my permission to die”). I think in the final showdown between Bane and Batman/Bruce, the voice will be strong, confident, angry, resolved, and determined. I think it will be praise-worthy… and it may be due in part to the rumor that all of Gotham will know that Bruce Wayne is Batman by that point (again, this is just a rumor… speculation based upon interviews in magazine articles and such).
So I actually think Bale’s Batvoice is a character in its own right within this trilogy.
As for those saying it was ridiculous that he used the voice with Fox… I cannot imagine Bale’s regular voice coming out of that cowl. If only we could get a blooper reel… I’d be willing to bet that they tried that, and it was just too ridiculous with Bale’s Bruce coming out of the cowl, leading to Freeman, Bale, and the crew laughing hysterically with each take. I honestly don’t think it would have worked.
As far as Gotham is concerned, I really do like Nolan’s vision better.
You say this in the article:
“I understand that Christopher Nolan is trying to ground his films in realism, but so long as you are doing a film about a man dressing up as and calling himself a bat, you simply cannot have true realism.”
I disagree completely. In fact, after seeing these films, it is the first time I’ve ever watched a comic-book movie and said “you know what? This could actually happen in real life!” Not only could I see Nolan’s Batman in real life, but I could also see Nolan’s Joker in real life. That thought scares the hell out of me, because I really don’t think society could survive if it were faced with such a man… I would say that Nolan’s Joker is more of a terrorist than the terrorist organizations we fight today, because unlike them, the Joker had no goals or cares… he didn’t even care if he died. Remember his reaction to falling off the roof… Nicholson yelled; he didn’t want to die. But Ledger *laughed*. He was quite happy to die, but the crucial point is when Batman saves him… he didn’t care! “You truly are incorruptible, aren’t you? I think you and I are destined to do this for a very long time.” And think about him and Harvey in the hospital. He literally dared Harvey to kill him. And the whole reason is because whether or not he died, the Joker would have won. And to be completely honest, I really do believe that the Joker won in TDK, because Batman and Gordon have to lie to keep the consequences of the Joker’s actions from exploding… and as appears to be the case in Rises, they don’t do a very good job of it.
I think if society were ever faced with such a threat, we would not survive. It would tear us apart at the seams, destroying everything we think we know about modern life.
That realism… that ability to put me in the movie and really make me think that this could actually happen, is why I emphatically prefer Nolan’s Gotham to Burton’s. Don’t get me wrong… Burton’s worked within the context that Burton was creating. And unlike some, I will *forever* love Batman ’89 and Batman Returns (they were my first introduction to Batman, and Michelle Pfeiffer’s Catwoman was the subject of many a young boy’s fantasy… I did, and still do, love her Catwoman very, very much… though I am beyond excited about Hathaway’s Selina Catwoman). But I really do think Nolan’s Gotham just works better. It is a real city, and I love that.
I really do love the plausibility Nolan weaves throughout his narrative. Of course it blurs the line between fantasy and reality, what with Batman’s memory-cloth cape, the insane but absolutely amazing Tumbler, the sonar (I’m a rare one here, too, in that I absolutely *loved* that Nolan gave Batman “white eyes”… that was so cool), the grappling gun… and his utility belt could *not* have held all of those gadgets at once. But I really do appreciate Nolan striving to make his Batman look and feel *real*.
But beyond these two things, I felt that this article was brilliant.
And it is quite refreshing to know that I’m not the only one who prefers Katie’s Rachel to Maggie’s! I *hated* Maggie’s Rachel. At least with Katie’s Rachel I actually cared for her… I was genuinely afraid for her when Scarecrow dosed her and when she was with the boy in the Narrows. When Maggie’s Rachel was killed, I felt nothing at all… it really angers me that they recast Rachel, and, regardless of the reasons behind it, that recasting was a mistake. Granted, I feel like Rachel was a mistake of a character to begin with, but at least Katie did better than Maggie with the pathetically little they had.
After reading this article, I’ve decided that, after I see TDKR, I’m going to write a 5-post blog series (Introduction [and overall thoughts], Batman Begins, The Dark Knight, The Dark Knight Rises, Conclusion) on Nolan’s Batman and what it means to me. So thanks for inspiring me on that, and thanks for writing this in general. It will definitely be a reference in my series.
Interesting and fun article – I would say though-provoking, but we geeks have been having these thoughts since Batman Begins.
I don’t agree with much of your assessment, of course, but I’m with you on the conclusion: TDK wins hands down. I didn’t like Burton’s Batman and never will, whereas Nolan’s works for me. This despite the fact that Nolan does not deliver the Batman I really want to see in the cinema: the super-hero Batman, the most feared deity in the pantheon of the DC Universe. Nolan’s films are as realistic as he can get away with and the characters as grounded as possible whilst still having some connection to the comics. Even so, Nolan’s two outings to date are way better than Burtons’s. Burton, as you say, did not like comics and chose, what he described, as an operatic take on the material; for me that turned it into farce. Burton’s choice of leads was also way off. Nicholson always plays Nicholson, and he failed to pull off The Joker. Keaton, a short, dumpy comedy actor was the an egregious piece of miscasting. Nolan did much better, Ledger was good, not great, but good and Bale nailed it. He manages, exactly, the patrician entitlement and the man-possessed-by-demons aspects of the character(s). Nolan’s stories were better too and his film-making a class apart; as I said Burton was playing away here, a little out of his comfort zone.
Was TDK perfect? No. Nolan has a tendency to pastiche that I find slightly annoying. The bank scene is pure Mann, as you mention. He does this again in Inception. But even auteurs reference each others work, so this is a niggle, not a major flaw. Burton is also an auteur and I love many, if not most, of his films, but not Batman; there he was working for the money and it shows. What’s worse, he set the one feature which still endures – Batman wearing armour! This limits the actors’ physicality and reduces expression. In that sense Adam West’s Batman still looks the best, even if he did set a pretty low bar.
how the hell did u miss out on the BATMOBILE..ANYWAY hands down the winner has to be DARK KNIGHT,,!!
terrific article! until reading this, i didn’t think there was any source material going for batman 89 other than the characters. very insightful! i know the two films weren’t compared, but i was curious how you would compare 89′s batman to the batman of nolans begins?
Such a well thought out, in depth piece. It was genuinely a blast to read this! Well done.
I agree with almost every conclusion you came to – only I find it hard to choose between the two. I love them both and tend to watch one or the other depending on my mood.
Also, I like Returns…please don’t hurt me.
Sorry that should say I find it *impossible* to choose between the two.
I just checked this article out to show someone at Uni that I wrote it. Its been months since I’ve looked here, as I’ve been busy with my studies. I come back and find 10 more comments since new year. Thats incredible to me. This is the first major article I have ever done and as yet the only bog article I’ve done (Uni gets in the way!). I just want to say, whether you agreed or disagreed with the article, thank you for your comments and kind words. I will respond to you all when time will allow. If you would like more of my comic opinions, check out the Comic Box Podcast here on WhatCulture. – Alex
Adaptation or not it is a core element of the character and has been for over 50 years. The rest of your comment was just puerile and I’m not bothering with anyone who genuinely uses the acronym “TL:DR”, they always turn out to be argumentative idiots.
I will say, to Christian Bale’s credit, that the exaggerated voice used in TDK is not the one Bale used. It was made deeper and gravelier digitally in post-production. He DID exaggerate his voice, as one commenter above stated is required by the role, but he didn’t take it that far. Bale is far too good an actor (in my opinion) to do something that stupid. They weren’t satisfied wit what Bale did voice-wise, and changed it for the worse. I didn’t dislike it, but I would have liked it toned down a bit.
I love your article but I would like to decline because TDK is a realistic story for example you said.that you didn’t like Bale’s Batman but I desagree because he shows us his own conflict by being batman that’s why he uses his voice because he needs to be angry and he can’t be recognized. wellll that’s my opinion
I’ve never understood the over reaction to Bale’s Batman voice. It never seems particularly forced or out of place to me, in fact the line from Batman Begins when BaleBat is hanging Flass upside from the fire escape and he screams “Swear To Me!” might just be the best Batman line in all his cinematic portrayals.
The Dark Knight score was composed by Hans Zimmer & James Newton Howard, not just Zimmer.
Though Elfman’s Batman has some great moments, I do prefer the Zimmer-Newton Howard score.
¿How is it possible that Vicky Vale, a journalist, comes to Gotham and does not know how Bruce Wayne looks like? Yeah, when they first meet, Bruce gets “wow” and is a funny scene, but c’mon.
In Returns, ¿how is it possible that Catwoman can break through Batman’s armor with her “nails”, wounding him, while in Batman 1 he gets shot at close range and wakes up as if nothing had happened? I’ve always seen this as an analogy, as if Catwoman managed to get inside of his head. But, ¿Shouldn’t he had made his suit evolve instead of decreasing it?
haha – I stopped reading after he said keaton’s voice may seem a bit silly. That might be the dumbest thing Ive ver read considering how TERRIBLE bale’s voice and the fact that since 1989 ever single interpretation of batman has copied keaton’s.
A very good and detailed review sir. A joy to read. But while i see ur points and understand them, i feel u gave Burton’s film bashings in areas. I like to point out im a major fan of The Bat and all sets of material, including these 2 films and even the 2 u realised. I would only like to say is checkout another review of these 2 films done by the Nostalgia Critic and tell me wat u think. In short however, great review :)
great review sir. A joy to read. But while i see ur points and understand them, i feel u gave Burton’s film a bashing. 1 thing id also want to point out is Nolans Batman killed 2. He whyll not physically did kill Ras Al Ghul. And, whyll going on a limb here but he did kinda kill Rachel. Granted, he didnt kill her and was trying to save her but he was all gun ho in letting 1 of em die just to save her. And he kills Dent. But anyway, in short, great review
This is one of the best comparisons I’ve ever read of the Burton and Nolan films. Very well-thought out and fair. Like someone said earlier, it would be great if the next Batman film could be a mixture of Burton’s mysterious, gothic style and Nolan’s realistic and character-driven approach. Rocksteady’s Arkham games were great, because they took the best bits from the Burton and Nolan films, the Animated Series, and the comics.
I didn’t have a chance to read all the comments. But one thing that I think was missing in your analysis is that Jack Napier (before he became the Joker) murdered Bruce’s parents. That might have partially motivated Batman to kill him at the end of the movie.
One thing that also seemed to be missing was any mention of Tommy Lee Jones’ portrayal of Two Face. Granted, this film came later in the franchise (after Joel Schumacher turned it into a cartoon). Still, since we’re talking about one of the villians in “The Dark Knight,” I would think some mention would be warranted. My personal take: Tommy Lee Jones always seems to play the same character regardless of whatever movie he’s in (as does Jack Nicholson). Thus, Arron Eckart wins.
Absolutely not! I’d watch ’89 Batman over TDK every time. More entertaining, a lot more fun, stronger visual polish, more nihilistic and vervy Batman. Leave me on an island and I’d have to take 89 Batman. TDK can stay home. But if I had to choose between ’89 Batman and Batman Begins, that would be more difficult. Batman Begins has a Gotham that looks like well, Gotham, just Nolan’s version… more industrial but not as retro as Burton’s. And Batman moves more like Batman… and I will concede that Batman is actually kind of scary in Begins; it’s one of the few moments where I sense Bale’s rage and alter. But TDK almost has no similarity in look for Gotham and Batman has less “Batman” stealth moments.
I agree with your point of view on most aspects. Except the music. I listened to both the musical scores and I have to say Hans Zimmer has put forward a story on it’s own. His version is harrowing, it’s edgy and it’s haunting and by no means is it over-the-top. I feel like Nolan’s series would not be half as intense if it wasn’t for Hans Zimmer’s background score.
Finally, I know this has nothing to do with the comparisons you’ve made here, but I just got out of watching The Dark Knight Rises, and the background score blew my mind. Not to mention, your verdict on the portrayal of batman would change completely. Given the fact how disturbing Bane is as a character at one point you actually start to miss that raspy voice because in a lawless world where everything is just being shot to hell, that voice is the only source of hope.
Though I agree that Nolan’s Trilogy was better than Tim Burton’s Batman movies, I have to give credit where it deserves. Tim Burton’s Batman was actually the first series that gave justice on the approach on how Batman should be if it was in real life. The darkness, the bad memories of childhood, the drive to protect the city, and the night. Plus, Michael Keaton’s Bruce Wayne/Batman character wasn’t even fully utilized. He wasn’t even able to break the barrier of his potential. Jack Nicholson also did a great job in imitating Mark Hamill’s Joker.
But reality still stands… If compared w/ the Nolan’s Batman, it’ll look like a B-side superhero movie. Still decent, but not as good. Anyway, I think I’ll just appreciate the movies for what they are: Epic. :) Just don’t compare it to that trash/overhyped Avengers 2012.
Jack Nichlson portrayed joker before Mark Hamill
nicholson was 25 years too old in 89 to be playing joker. hes was too old and fat. thats really my only problem with the 89 film. dark night is a super hero film for people who dont like super hero films. nolans films casted the female horrible in the first two. holmes and gyllenhal were bad. he redeemed himself in rises.
I juts have 3 words, what an idiot!!!
Is it really not much of contest. Watching Nolan’s Trilogy is like going out the finest restaurants. Watching Burton’s movies are like sitting on your couch eating Cheetos. And frankly i never cared for Burton’s movie.
Completely disagree with your comments on the length of the Dark Knight. To be honest, it gets to me constantly hearing people complaining about movies over 2:15 minutes being too long. It’s really not that big of deal for a movie to be 2:00-3:00 hours or even longer.