Exclusive Interview: FOUR LION's Nigel Lindsay
The actor discusses all things Morris, Iannucci... and Woody Allen!
Earlier in the week I met up with 'Four Lions'star Nigel Lindsay to talk about his work with that film's director, Chris Morris (which also includes 'BrassEye'), as well as his time working with such members of the British comedy elite as Armando Iannucci and Steve Coogan, on shows like'I'm Alan Partridge'and 'The Armando Iannucci Shows', and his work on stage with Patrick Marber (also part of the team beghind 'The Day Today'on which all those people worked). Lindsay has also been seen in films like 'Rouge Trader' and television series like HBO's 'Rome'. Here is what he had to say when Obsessed With Film caught up with him... Have you done a lot of promotion for the film already?Not too much. Not as much as I thought wed do. Ive just come from breakfast TV, on the sofa, one of thoseIts not a very breakfast TV film is it?
Its funny because the runner was about to put us on in front of the cameras and she said dont you think this is a bit weird? A Chris Morris film on breakfast television? But you know its good in a way. All these breakfast TV people and certain journalists, I think theyre looking for controversy and theyre trying to make the film into something that its not. We just say well, its just a funny film. And its good for us, because 3 million people watch breakfast TV.Which one was it? BBC or GMTV?
BBC. Ive never seen GMTV. Im not up at that time in the morning!I was looking at your CV on the IMDB and I noticed that youre in a lot of my favourite shows, and I hope you see this as the compliment it is intended as, I didnt recognise you. Do you see yourself as an actor who can blend into roles? Even now, Ive seen Four Lions and I dont see you as Barry .
I think Im an actor who has managed to fly under the radar for years. I do what every actor does: you try to get into the roles that youre offered. But I think its a question of, if youre a character actor, and I dont want to compartmentalise but I think you can, youre either one of those good-looking, young leads, which Ive never been, or youre a character actor. And if youre a character actor you get to have a really fun career because you get asked to do all different things. Then people will decide for a couple of years that I play hard men and so theyll try and cast me in all the hard men parts and then theyll decide actually hes really funny and warm and loving so I get to do those parts as well. As far as Im, concerned, I try not to pigeonhole myself. There are some actors who are completely pigeonholed for their whole career and Im not. Im very lucky because Ive got a sort of comedy bent: I know all the fantastic people in comedy, Steve Coogan, Armado and Chris , so I get the alternative comedy. I also get the mainstream comedy. Im not ashamed to say Ive done two episodes of My Familyand Ive done two series with Jennifer Saunders, so I get the more mainstream comedy. And there is my theatre background; I get to play dramatic roles on stage as well.Obviously I know you say you relish all of it, but is there any of that you prefer to anything else?
Obviously I like playing to my strengths. I like doing comedy and there are some parts you feel youll be able to get into, like Barry in Four Lions. Basically the reason I got the job was Chris came to see a Pinter play, called The Homecoming at the Almeida and there is a character in that (its a very famous play) theres a character called Lenny who is this slightly psychotic pimp, in true Pinter fashion. I was in a restaurant after the show, with my wife, and Chris was with his wife at another table (and I know Chris from BrassEye) so I went to say hello and I didnt realise that at that point Chris was saying I cant think of anyone who could play Barry and his wife said youve just seen him on stage: Nigel. I went up to him and said Hi Chris and he said Nigel, lunch, Wednesday! So thats how it works, you sort of fall into those parts. I forgot the question you asked me now! Um. no, I dont have any particular preference. I like to be tested now. I remember I saw an interview with Jack Lemmon once where they said what makes you take a role these days? and he said anything that terrifies me! Anything that when I look at it I might not be able to do.And did Barry terrify you?
In a way, because I felt its Chris, so you know theres a certain standard you have to achieve, he works very hard, there is going to be controversy and because hes cutting edge comedy I was scared. I wanted to make sure I did the best for him I could.Youve got the funniest line in the film, I thought. I was in hysterics at the bit when youre trying to convert the young guy and you say women are talking back to men, people are playing string instruments. I laughed well into three scenes about that at the screening!
Weve got women talking back, people playing string instruments! There was another bit which was even funnier which we cut where I said Damascus is ruled by a duck. Damascus is ruled by a duck! Thats the thing with Chris; he shouts lines at you during takes. So there was a scene in which Arsher , Im trying to convince Arsher (who plays Hassan) that we should bomb a mosque. He says are you serious? and my line was just yeah, I am serious and this is what were gonna do and as he said are you serious? Chris, as were filming, shouts say Im serious as beetroot. So you just go yeah, Im serious as beetroot, mate and carry on. And then later the line kicks in and you think what the hell does that mean? and you start laughing.Were there lots of times where, like in those cheesy gag reels at the end of films, he shouted something out and you just couldnt stop laughing?
Oh absolutely! There is a scene on YouTube at the moment, in the garage with the bleach where he covers his face to disguise as a women and we improvised a lot of that scene. There was this one take where I picked up one of those bleach bottles (they were all empty) and I chucked it and it just pinged off his head really satisfactorily and I just looked at him and we both just went. In the end I had to stand outside of the garage. They separated us like a couple of naughty school boys so I could stop laughing, because Barry isnt a man with the greatest sense of humour, so I didnt ever want to show him laughing.I noticed youve been in a Patrick Marber play on stage (Dealers Choice), youve been in my favourite television show of all-time, The Armando Iannucci Shows, which Ive watched a thousand times
Have you?Yeah, I love them.
Good for you! Ive never seen them! Can you buy them?Yeah, you need to watch them! Anyway and BrassEye, which is obviously a classic and I was wondering if all of those people (who were together in The Day Today and things like that), in your experience of working with all of them, are they a community? It feels to me that those people, along with Stewart Lee and Charlie Brooker, are a group. Its interesting to hear about how you got the job on Four Lions, because I assumed you were part of that set. That they knew you: Armando knew you, Chris knew you.
Yes. There is a set. There is sort of an exclusive club, to which I do not belong! And they are certainly not arrogant about it I can exactly see why youd think that, because if you look from the outside youd think these guys have a secret handshake, but actually they are all just really talented people who have collaborated over the years. They are all really nice and they all just know each other. I mean, Patrick did Allan Partridge with Armando, Armando and Chris are best mates. Chris went to seeIn the Loop before anybody else and had a word with him about editing and Armando did the same with Chris . Theyre really, really good friends and yes it does help in that I know Patrick, in fact I met Patrick Marber before any of them. I used to play poker theres an actor called Sam West and he has a poker game, for ten years every Monday night in his house and Patrick and I went to that. And one day Patrick said to me Im doing a play about poker, fancy coming and improvising? and that was Dealers Choice with Ray Winstone and Phil Daniels, but before they came along, Patrick came in with a recorder, like that , put it on the floor, and we started improvising. It was me, him, two other guys and we improvised this play. He went off and wrote it from that. And in a way that was my first big break because it ended up at the National and went into the West End, Ray and Phil came onboard. So then, if Armando is looking for somebody, Patrick will say you should try Nigel, you know. Your name gets mentioned in dispatches if you do a good job. So it helped that I knew Patrick to know Armando and then for Chris, Chris and Armando were working together so he might mention my name. Steve Coogan was a mate of Patricks and I worked, the play after Dealers Choice at the National, I did a play called Blue Remembered Hills where we were all ten-year-old kids, its Dennis Potter, Steve and I were in that. So I knew Steve and he knew Patrick, so Steve phoned me up and said can you do a day on Alan Partridge? Its like any business isnt it? So yeah, there is a set and Im not a member of it, is the short answer to that.But every time you collaborate with one of them in some way, do you get a little bit closer to being in the set?!
Do you know what? I dont give a shit any more! Theyre creators, they create all their stuff and Im just happy to work. As an actor, its so nice to work with top people. My first audition ever was with Harry Enfield for his show and I was absolutely terrified, because it was this bloke from off the telly. I didnt get the part. But thankfully now, I know these people and its easier.Im just going on his Paxman-esque BrassEye-The Day Today persona, but is Chris Morris a bit scary? A bit intense?
Everyone is scared of Chris! Im scared of Chris and I know him very well. Hes the nicest bloke. People are always quite surprised about how funny and how engaging he is, but hes a well brought up, middle-class boy and he speaks slightly in a military fashion hi, how are you? Lets get down to business. And when he works, he works harder than anyone Ive ever met. I wouldnt want to cross him, I have to say. But having said that, hes the nicest, most engaging man and hed do anything for you. Hes a lovely bloke.How does working with Chris Morris differ from working with Armando Iannucci? Chris is a bit scary and Armando seems more laid back and diplomatic and nice. Is that how it is?
Yes! Yes it is! I have to say, theyre both fantastic to work for. Youve picked up on their personalities very well. What they both are is collaborative. What I love about Chris (and Armando), is youre not scared, they create a working environment I think Im quite good at improvisation, but compared to Chris and Armando Im nowhere near but what they allow you to do is develop your character. Especially with Barry, it was a longer process, so Chris just let me go off and develop my character. I did some researchDid you build a back story?
I developed a back story for myself, which no one else needed to know, I didnt even pass it with Chris, just to get the anger of the man and where he came from. Its collaborative. I said to him I wanna shave my head. He had Barry dressed in khaki the whole time and I said no I want him to wear the Muslim thing and so rather than say no, which a lot of people would, he said lets have a look. So I got the costume people to go off to the market and buy the clothes, then we I put the tracksuit trousers on with it and went and I showed him and he went yeah. And then I thought hed forgotten about me shaving my head, then at 10 oclock the night before we filmed he phoned me up and said Ive decided to take you up on your generous offer. So, he does work quite militarily, but Armando, hes more laid back, but the people I work with that I like best are the ones that dont treat you as a child. If you believe that they believe you can do it from the beginning, then they can say what they like to you. I mean, Patrick Marber is a real control freak, but you know he thinks youre good, so he can say what he likes. They all work different ways, but ultimately its a collaborative thing and thats great.That must be an ego boost as theyve all worked with you more than once. With In the Loop last year, and Ricky Gervais has a film out now, it seems quite good for British TV on film, whereas in the last ten years we had things like Kevin and Perry Go Large and The League of Gentlemen: Apocalypse, which were frankly appalling. I was wondering if you have any insight as to why this is a good time for British TV people on the screen or is just that we have the right people doing it now?
I dont know. I think youre right, it comes in waves doesnt it? Obviously the people youve mentioned are all talented and there is a sort of morphic resonance that happens, when some people have an idea, if an alternative comedy circuit springs up and everyone is good, theyre all vying against each other competitively and good work comes from that. So if you get a talented group of people, you have got your Ricky Gervais and Stephen Merchant and then youve got Chris, whose slightly more cutting edge, theyre all really good and striving to do good work and I suppose you do look across and see another film and another project and it inspires competition, doesnt it?I was wondering, and I hope I havent got my facts completely wrong, but when I first heard about Four Lions (and it wasnt called Four Lions back then) a few years go, it was reported that it was a TV show, that he was making another sitcom, is that correct? If so, were you involved with it at that point?
No, I wasnt. I think what happened at the beginning is he always wanted it to be a film, but funding (and funding a film about suicide bombers is never going to be a great pitch to get money) and it looked at some point that money would come in if he made it for TV, but he was never going to make it for TV. Youd have to check with him, but maybe he considered making it for telly, because that was where some money was going to come from, but then he decided to make a film.How did he eventually manage to make the film?
Well money came in. Its as simple as that. He got funding. Warp came in (the guys who make all the Shane Meadows films) and theyre behind this, they backed it from the beginning. Film Four originally said no, but basically, with film funding you have to make that first step and once youve made that first step other people may come in depending on who they are. Warp are very well respected, Chris is very well respected. But it took a long time. At one point he was asking people on the internet, fans, asking if theyd send in a tenner to be part of a Chris Morris film, because he was determined to make it.Im glad he did. Ive been wondering, and youve probably been asked this a few times, but was there ever an element in your mind of concern? Of thinking along the lines of the Danish newspaper cartoons, thinking am I going to get threats?
Yes. My initial reaction was the reaction of any human being, especially when were young children, which was am I going to be murdered? But youve got to trust it. I said to him what are my chances of being assassinated? And he said, look, Im not taking the piss out of a religion. This is a comedy about five blokes who couldnt organise a piss up in a brewery and frankly it could be trying to organise anything. Ok theyre members of a terrorist cell, but the comedy is about the group dynamic. In no way was he having a pop at religion. Youre always going to get some people who are offended. When Life of Brian came out, you had all those archbishops on the telly arguing with Michael Palin and John Cleese and theyd turn round and say have you seen the film? and they hadnt seen the film. If people go and see this film weve had religious Muslims see the films, weve had ex-Guantanamo Bay prisoners seeing the film, weve had families of the victims of 7/7 seeing the film and theyve all said its really funny and they werent offended.I think its quite clear where the films heart lies.
If youve seen it.How would you describe Barry as a character to people who havent seen the film?
I would say that Barry he suffers from a psychotic anger because he thinks he should be the master of the universe, but time and again the world proves to him that he shouldnt, that he has no masterly qualifications. Hes trapped because he feels he should be running everything, but he has no capacity to do it and its a constant knock-back all the time. Hes just a very angry man and I feel he would be happy in any terrorist organisation: he could be National Front or Black Rights as long as they get to kill people. He just wants violence. I imagined him being kicked out by his wife and having to live in his shed at the bottom of his garden, thinking the world was against him.Is that part of your internal back story?
That was part of my internal back story, yeah. Ive let it out the bag.Ive heard him described as a convert to Islam. Thats not mentioned in the film
Well, hes white, so he probably wasnt born a Muslim. Youre known as a revert if you become a Muslim, so he is, obviously hes converted and he was based on a couple of characters. Chris met somebody who was a member of the National Front and liked to harangue Muslims on the street and bought himself a Quran so he could learn to insult them a bit better and accidentally converted himself. So there was an element of that. We could see Barry as maybe ex-army and wanting to blow people up. He was a great character to play very fun.I imagine you had a good time sparring off the other actors too
Yeah, we had a lovely time together. I was just on Breakfast TV with three of them and it was so nice to see them again. We lived in these awful student digs up in Sheffield for six weeks. Our usual pick up time was 5.45 in the morning and youre working through til 7 at night. Youre absolutely knackered. We were in almost every scene when we were working in Sheffield, so there was an enormous blitz mentality. Chris shot 4 ½ hours of film for a 90 minute film. I did a whole day with Kayvan , who plays Waj and Arsher, who plays Hassan, with camouflage make-up over my entire head, rolling in stinging nettles and jumping in rivers doing manoeuvres and it was never used in the film!Is the end bit, with the marathon, really filmed with all those extras or is there a trick there?
Well, Chris always knew he wanted to do the marathon before he started filming. He filmed the real London marathon and I was actually running it at the time. We said wouldnt it be funny if Barry goes running past without a shaved head or a beard, waving at the camera. He filmed the real London marathon the year before. He already knew he wanted the Honey Monster, so he had Mark Herbert, who is one of the producers at Warp, dress in a Honey Monster costume running in the marathon. Mark Herbert ran about one hundred yards of the real marathon as the Honey Monster!What is your favourite part of the film the made it into the final film?
Probably the bit where Im punching myself in the face! But what Im hoping (and I hope Im not being arrogant with this) is that films like Withnail and I, there are quotes that everyone can quote youre already doing it and its music to my ears. I hope some of those come out and peopleIs a wookie a bear? for example!
Yes!I was wondering who is the better director out of Chris Morris and Woody Allen ?
Well! Thats a question I wont answer! But the thing with working for Woody Allen is I never saw him. I was only in two scenes. It was weird. Auditioning for a Woody Allen film is weird if youre playing a smaller part (I imagine George Clooney gets to see the script) but I was phoned up and asked will you go and audition for Woody and I said yeah, of course I will, can I see the script? No Ok, can you tell me something about the character? No, we dont know which character youll play. So, I turned up on the day and I was asked to read six different characters in six different scenes, on camera and I thought well this is crap. I got the job and then two days before filming I didnt know which character I was going to play. I never saw Woody. The first scene we did was in a pub and there was quite a few well-known British actors there, all in this one scene and were sitting there in this pub, waiting for the cameras to be set up, waiting, waiting and then suddenly out of the corner of my eye I saw this bloke coming towards me and I thought that looks like Woody Allen. Then I thought shit! Of course its Woody Allen thats the first time I saw him. He just came in and went Ok uh look just uh do the scene and if you wanna improvise, if you wanna say anything, just say it and Im thinking, Im not gonna improvise in a Woody Allen film! And that was how it was. He had quite a protective barrier because we were playing smaller parts. Whereas with Chris we were together every day and did research together. I assume if I had a bigger part, my mate Jim Broadbent did Bullets Over Broadway and said he was lovely. But he said he got a note from Liam Neeson which said dont unpack your bags because everyone gets fired in the first week! But he managed to last the course.'Four Lions'is released nationwide on May 7th and is reviewed here.