It’s been a good couple of months now since Nolan’s third and final Dark Knight movie hit cinemas, but people are still wrapped up in discussing it. Perhaps quite famously, Nolan’s take on the Dark Knight’s world has become something of a hotly contested topic and has split fans quite neatly down the middle.
I’ve been quite vocal in my criticism of Nolan’s take on the franchise, and I’ve admittedly come under some pretty vicious fire for my opinions in the past, but still, I just can’t bring myself to fully get behind this new franchise; TDKR in particular.
Maybe I’m too precious about Batman, and I’ll be the first to admit it – I’ve been following the character most of my life, and he’s acted as inspiration through some difficult times – but I’m also a student of film. Far from this perfect, definitive Batman story that many are insisting it is, in TDKR I didn’t only see a weak Batman adaptation, but also an imperfect movie – not terrible by any definition, but flawed in too many places for it to be considered anywhere near as good as some are angrily insisting it is.
To a certain extent, the greatness of Nolan’s Bat-trilogy relied on how he ended it, and for me and many others, that was somewhat unsatisfactorily. I think Nolan could have, should have done things differently, especially in TDKR. Here are nine of those very things.
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42 Comments
Trying to convince TDKR’s fans about any flaws is hopeless, their logic doesn’t allow for a reasonable discussion- So why does Nolans film have so many ridiculous moments- it’s a batman film, so why does the character not act like Batman then, it’s a Nolan film… And on it goes
I don’t believe the fans are claiming it is a flawless film just that they still love it even with any so-called flaws. Most of what people are complaining about essentially comes down to preference. These films are about Bruce Wayne and his journey if you care about his character you will love the whole trilogy. Batman’s behaviour is consistent within Nolan’s universe not the comic books. Why do you need to convince others of flaws? It just seems you can’t accept that some people love the film when you didn’t, it’s just different strokes.
How does the character not act like Batman? Don’t give me the lame excuse that “Batman would NEVER quit! EVER!” And name some flaws, I don’t really care, I know no film is perfect, but some have been misinterpreted or not completely followed through.
Agree with you. It’s a Nolan film. It’s not a Nolan comic book. It’s only three movies. It’s not a trilogy set up for others to continue, but that may happen. Mr Nolan has said that whoever does the next Batman movie can totally ignore his trilogy, and that’s fine with him.
Mr Bedford is no doubt a longtime comic book reader, and he’s obviously disappointed that the movies didn’t closely follow the comics. I think there are more people who have seen Nolan’s trilogy than there are devout Batman comic book fans, and that’s the audience/market that the Nolan trilogy served to entertain. I’m a fan of the comics, mostly between 1970 and 1990, and I noticed many differences too, but I totally enjoyed Nolan’s take on the material, because I mainly chose to compare this trilogy with the Burton and Schumacher films.
Not much new here that hasn’t already been mentioned in countless other articles (especially as several of the points here are really just the same thing – you wanted less characters overall and more focus on certain individual characters), which leads me to comment on how tiresome this trend of TDKR commentary is now becoming. Whether I agree with some of the points or not is almost moot – the fact is that they have been said before, many times over.
Was the film perfect? No. Was it completely comic-faithful? No. But I will say that I have enjoyed it more every time time that I have seen it, which is worth mentioning if only because I had already read all of the commentary similar to the above by the last viewing, and found this to be the most pleasurable.
i think 99% of the beef with this film is from fans of the comic books.
i love the batman films, there some of my favourites BUT I’m not a comic guy.
now i’m only aware the detective side of things is more prominent from articles like this as i don’t read comics.
what i am saying from my view (not a comic book reader) its perfect. i see some detective work ( apparently not enough) and it all works fine, actually as a viewer i don’t want to see anymore than there is. in truth i don’t see him as a detective at all. but thats what films like burtons have done, brought up people like me in a different surrounding, one different to the comics. which again is okay.
I’m sorry the comic guys need to hold onto that but there just different, and thats simply it. There different.
Can we stop hating on TDKR now please? Its getting boring. You didn’t like it…WE GET IT
I have loved The Dark Knight trilogy and that’s coming from someone who did read the Comic Books as a kid. I can see past the fact that a film version is never going to be exactly like the comic books. Why? Because its a different medium, what works in a comic book can’t always work on film.
Sure there are some plot holes but name me a film that doesn’t? Who cares how Bruce got back to Gotham after being in the pit for example? You really want a film that’s already 2hr 45mins long to start messing about showing how he does? Sometimes things just have to be left to our imaginations
Let the hate flow. I think more people are willing to step up now and say that this movie sucked and it’s deeply gratifying. People have to keep harping on the flaws because the defenders of this film use logic negating tactics to make it appear like a faultless masterpiece. You can use the same reasoning to defend Batman & Robin. How did Batman not die when he used a door to windsurf to safety from the stratosphere? Because he’s Batman. Why did Mr. Freeze use so many horrid puns? Because it’s a Schumaker film, don’t be so nitpicky fanboyz, LOL!
Yeah, there needs to be a pushback against this blind idolatry of a subpar film.
What if the people who did enjoy the film do not see their liking of it as “blind idolatry?” I know many people who like me enjoyed the film and did not even care very much to debate about the criticisms that have been encountered on some websites. And, it really doesn’t matter because there are films that many people like that I find subpar, and vice versa. It simply is not fair to assume that every one who liked (or for that matter disliked) the film is going to want to get into a heated debate over it’s virtues. Sure, we can let the hate flow, but if you are tired of hearing love for the film your best option is to simply ignore it, just as others would rather ignore those who look at the film less favorably.
I think it’s hardly fair to make that claim. The movie was nowhere near horrible! Just because of a few flaws the movie deserves to be called garbage; that’s just silly. You want some questions answered? I’ll do it gladly. I won’t give that “it’s Batman” BS.
How does batman jump out of a cockpit over the ocean and elude a sixmile nuclear blast? Don’t say the autopilot because the editing celarly shows him in the cockpit seconds before the blast. PLOT HOLE.
Also, let’s use your guys reasoning for the Phantom Menace. “I think that most criticisms are just nitpicks. Most people’s criticisms come down to preference. Fans love it flaws and alls”. Makes you look pretty foolish eh?
intelligence officer: *sees Bane break the guy’s neck at the football stadium* “yep, that’s that guy that died in the plane crash a few months ago.”
“That one that was obviously staged? What with the bullet holes, and the fact that the plane kept flying despite the wings having broken off miles away from the crash site?”
“yeah, that one”
“well, how do you know it’s that guy?”
“for one, he actually looks like him”
“but I thought that the dental records backed up that it was his body?”
“we didn’t need to check his teeth – we found about 5% of his blood inside the body, that’s all the evidence we need”
Bane: *sees bruce in the middle of the final fight* hey, wait a minute… *storms up to him*
batman: bane, i’ve come to finish you.
bane: how the hell did you get back here?
batman: wouldn’t you like to know.
bane: but…but…i dropped you into a desert prison with a broken back, no money or technology, and no knowledge of where you were, and then I cut off the entire city so that not even the defence forces could get in here. So how’d you get back!?
batman: enough questions! *goes to fight him*
bane: *kicks his leg* ha!
batman: *collapses* damn it, i forgot about that…
bane; *punches him in the back*
batman: *falls over* argh, pain!
bane: in what reality, after spending months underground, starving and injured in a desert prison, could you possibly go up against me?
batman: *groaning*
bane: damn straight
batman: *chasing after talia* argh…damn my anti-killing philosophy
catwoman: but you’re firing missiles at them!
batman: damn my philosophy…
batman: hey selina
catwoman: yeah, bruce?
batman: i’m not bruce…i’m his friend
catwoman: oh…right.
batman: hey, whatever happened to that friend you had? you two seemed pretty close…
catwoman: who?
batman; that girl…friend, the one you lived with?
catwoman: …who?
batman:…
catwoman:…
batman:…nevermind.
talia: and then we shall destroy gotham!
bane: shouldn’t we have done this months ago?
talia: no, i needed to show bruce how gotham would become.
bane: but the media can’t get into gotham…and i left him in a desert prison.
talia: did you install the power and the television?
bane: yes
talia: then he’ll suffer from the lack of news!
bane: *standing on the tumbler, reading gordon’s speech* as you can see, they’ve lied to you!!
husband: *sitting at home with his wife, watching the news* the bastards…
wife: what? you’re just going to believe them?
husband: of course i am honey; he’s reading it off of a piece of paper!
wife: but-
husband: honey…*rubbing her on the shoulder* why would he lie?
bane: *on the tumbler* let’s release the prisoners!
*all of the media run off*
bane: then we shall liberate your homes, your children, liberate them from the hostilities, the fear, from the…
minion: uh…bane, they’re gone.
bane: DON’T INTERRUPT ME WHILE I’M DELIVERING MY SPEECH!
minion: sorry…
bane: as i was saying. we will liberate the children…
bruce: wow, this brace has completely fixed my leg!
alfred: excellent news, sir! Now, just be careful not to do anything too extreme.
bruce: *kicks the brick wall, breaking his leg* AHHHHHHHH
alfred: like that…
batman: *in the c*ckpit, carrying the bomb towards the ocean* now, the wind is blowing to the west, so there’s no way that the radiation will hit the city. now, there’s only three seconds left, it’s time to make my escape…*finds the ‘teleport’ button* ah, mr fox – you’ve done it again! *presses it and disappears*
fox: *looking over the wreckage of the bat* thank god it survived the explosion…
crewman: it’s certainly a sturdy ship.
fox: it sure is. kind of wish i made more than one though…
crewman: *looking around the hangar* it’s a good thing bane didn’t take anything else other than the tumbler. he could have done a lot more damage…
fox: what’s this?
crewman: oh, looks like someone installed an auto-pilot.
fox: quite a talent that is, wish i could have done it myself.
crewman: oh no, that definitely would have taken someone who knew what they were doing.
talia: yes bruce, it was me.
bruce: so your were the mercenary’s daughter. you are talia al ghul!
talia; yes bruce, i just told you – hey, wait a minute. how did you know my father was the mercenary in the story?
bruce: because he told me
talia: when?
bruce: he came to me as a ghost while i was recovering in the prison bane left me in.
talia: …come again.
bruce: he came to me as a ghost.
talia: …and revealed to you that he was the mercenary?
bruce: yeah
talia: i see…
batman and catwoman: *run outside* we’ll take the bat and catch up to her – hey! where the heck is the bat!
talia: *flying off in the bat* thanks bruce!
batman: …probably shouldn’t have left it in the middle of the street.
intelligence officer: “got word back, they’ve determined that wayne’s money was illegally taken”
“how’d they determine that?”
“well, it was the only activity made during the time when the trade centre was taken hostage by bane and his men”
“…i doubt it”
“what do you mean?”
“it’s what wayne wants us to think! screw him, he ain’t getting any of that back…”
bruce: *admiring the new bat cave* beautiful…
alfred: to think, we did it all ourselves.
bruce: of course, we had no other choice. if someone else were working on this, they would know my secret!
I adored the film (not just because I was in it), but I must admit that this was brilliant and hilarious! Proof that humour is perhaps the best way to make one’s point.
The Fire Rises!
P.S. I could kick Joker’s ass. Naturally.
The above comment is a thing of beauty. More plotholes than I even remembered. The bat is the biggest one. Lucius Fox deserves a Nobel Prize for inventing a helicopter that can not only survive a six megaton blast, but also not remain irradiated and be fished out of the ocean. LOL. That my friends is an indefensible plot hole. HEY-YO!
@Damon242 a retard of the highest order.
@T maybe you should pay attention next time and you will notice that batman’s “bat” was black and the one fox was examining wasn’t hence NOT THE SAME ONE. you should probably also look up neutron bombs and its effects on military vehicles.
Really What Culture? Really? We’re a month away from the premiere and you keep posting TDKR articles? This is gettin’ Ridiculous. And sooo many by this same author. It’s gettin’ boring, the cheap shots cheaper… come on guys, just drop it. Live your life. Be happy.
With all due repsect to this author, I could not disagree more.
Nolan elevated the material and got things right where they matter most: world building, character motivation, and especially in the third movie: emotion.
Those who did not like Nolan’s take will hopefully be satisfied down the road with a reboot, which will probably resemble the successful videogame franchise.
But for most of the world, that will be a step backward and, chances are, feel like every other generic superhero movie.
Just my opinion.
Didn’t the same guy cover the same topics in another article before???
All things have been said before.And for a sane person at least these are invalid points.so keep hating…………..
The story in this movie was way too big for just one film. I think 2 full movies would have fixed many problems and played out better on a grander scale.
Not gonna lie. These articles are getting annoying.
Why don’t you make a batman movie then? Critics kill me. Don’t criticize what you can’t achieve yourself.
“With $82.1M in the United Kingdom, Rises surpassed The Avengers to become that market’s top grosser of 2012 and biggest super hero film of all-time. That’s an amazing achievement given that there were no 3D surcharges and the distraction of the London Olympics were there”
I think he did something right, lads.
the backlash against the backlash is retarded people can like it if they want duh and people can dslike it if someone wants to write an article abut how disapointed they were by a movie and u dont like it take ur own advice if not just debate it dkr is trash
An adaption is another take on an original piece. If it were to replicate completely, then it would just be doing what has already been done. The Batman movie franchise is doing better than any others out there at letting artists tell the Batman story in their own way, keep it interesting and mould it as the years go by, ready for new audiences who may never have ready the comics. By doing this, they create a comic book-like essence form film goers, instead of having one person write and direct 7 films.
I take Nolan’s version as it comes and I’m sure whoever attempts the franchise in the future will make new changes and cast adjustments to his/her telling of the story. If you don’t want your ‘precious original’ picked apart in way that dissatisfies you, don’t watch an adaption, then you won’t have to complete this pathetic picking apart of how it “should have been done”. If you can do better; do it, don’t whine on about it!
All movies have plot holes/flaws, The Dark Knight had almost as much as The Dark Knight Rises. The difference is that nobody paid any attention to them. Plot holes are there so that people who are disappointed with a film can use them to rationalize why they didn’t like it. It’s not about flaws, it’s about whether or not you’re satisfied EMOTIONALLY with the movie.
The author makes a few points I agree with but he’s so wrong about these:
1. I thought the ending with the torch passing onto Blake was perfect. Rises had many callbacks to Begins, which focused so much on Bruce creating a legend. Batman is a legend, not Bruce, so it wasn’t necessary for Bruce to stay Batman. A legend lasts forever. Plus, I think Bruce represents Nolan in a way. Nolan and Bruce are done with Batman.
3. It isn’t called Gordon Rises for a reason. The whole trilogy was about Bruce and Batman. Taking time to focus on Gordon all of a sudden would be weird and waste time since he was in the last 2 films and nothing like that happened.
4. I don’t know if the author really watched this movie. Selina started the events of this movie. She’s probably one of the few that’s skilled enough to break in Bruce’s house and steal his prints and sell them to Daggett, bankrupting Bruce, forcing him to tell Talia where the bomb is. She also served as Bruce’s “family” at the cafe scene since Miranda is Talia and Rachel is dead.
6. Again, the author seems to not understand the movie. Leaving Bruce in Gotham allows him to get well again and possibly defeat Bane. By putting him in a foreign prison practically impossible to break out of, Bane forced Bruce to watch Gotham’s destruction and know there was nothing he could do to prevent it.
7. Nolan was going for a realistic take on the character. Seeing him do monkey flips around villains and thugs would be silly, seeing how Bruce doesn’t have powers like Spider-man.
8. No. Again, this is supposed to be realistic. Having Bane pump venom inside him would be silly.
Anyways, geek rant over. The film had flaws but I still loved it. The author needs to see the movie again. He seemed to missed a few points.
Please move on.
Agree completely, there’s no need to continue the writing of such articles.
Yes, the movies do have flaws. But no film or trilogy can be classified as “perfect”. At the end of the day; did the filmmaker get a provocative message across and/or leave you emotionally satisfied after the film. Nolan does both and in spectacular fashion, and I have to give him credit there for undertaking such a feat. So accept was is put before you or simply go without; no one’s forcing you to watch or ever re-watch the films again.
Thank you.
People really seem to miss the point of Bane putting Bruce in the Pit prison. There is tremendous symbolism for him in doing this and it all ties into one of the main reasons behind Talia & Bane’s plot against Gotham: tearing down Bruce Wayne. As Bane himself said, the Pit was a place he never escaped from. It was Ra’s who came in and rescued him. Bane is very much a dark, twisted version of Bruce in this film, and as such, Bane views himself a stronger, more determined version of his enemy. It’s very telling about Bane’s insistence on putting Bruce in this particular hole in the ground in his line of dialogue: “I broke you. How did you come back?” His incredulity speaks volumes. Bane thought he owned Bruce and put him in the one place in the world that had defeated himself. To put him anywhere else wouldn’t have crossed his mind.
As to the “interruption” in Bane’s efforts in Gotham to take Bruce to the Pit half a world away, he was working on a long-form timetable. Plus, this goes back to the thought process mentioned above and the fact that Bane would most definitely want to personally deliver Bruce to that hell. And it’s not as if it takes that long to travel halfway around the world anymore. You can do it in less than a day. All told, he would’ve been gone from Gotham for 2 or 3 days tops. With the turmoil he set up, it’s not as if he actually had to be in Gotham to continue to impress the fear and control upon the people he had. Between his crew and the Blackgate inmates, his presence was felt. And the majority of Gotham citizens probably never saw Bane in person during the occupation. Most probably only saw him on TV. I’ve seen this concern pointed out a few times and I have to say it’s really a non-issue.
Thank you.
So you’re a month late, with zero original ideas except for it to be an entirely different movie. Nice job.
I agree completely with this post.
Holy geek rant Mr. Bedford!
Holy nerd rage!
Do ‘we’ really have to keep using ‘We’ in the lead-ins to articles? This article was written by one person. Short of it being the Royal ‘We’ it suggests that all the writers at WC feel the same way, as if there’s an official party line on it. There’s nothing wrong with ‘I,’ it’s a perfectly nice word.
Final word on this.
A quick search tells me that author Stuart W. Bedford has written the following articles:
– The Dark Knight Rises: 9 Things Nolan Should Have Done
– The Dark Knight Rises: 20 Blunders in Chris Nolan’s Trilogy
– The Dark Knight Rises: 10 Ways It Didn’t Live Up To The Hype
Aside from the obvious comment that the number of things supposedly wrong with TDKR seems to be very inconsistent, I’m not sure that one person’s repetitive opinion on the same topic needs quite so much public airing.
I’ll just go ahead and politely put in a request – leave it alone now.
Please.
i’ve read his previous two articles and refrained from commenting but the guy is a hack. most of the points he makes are ridiculous. his issues seem to stem from either not paying attention or due to the director not feeding him every single information about everything that’s happening in an already established batman universe.take for example “Included Some Detecting”, the very first bruce wayne scene showed him deducing catwoman was there for his fingerprint.
“all round social media bell-end” is probably the only thing he’s written i agree with.
And to everyone saying the people who didn’t like this film didn’t pay enough attention and are giving us bogus rationalizations. We paid close attention. We just found it incredibly stupid. I understand the symbolism of letting Gotham have hope for five months before blowing it up, it’s just stupid and incredibly weak storytelling. Just an excuse to give wayne time enough to recuperate in the pit of metaphors. Horrid, horrid film.
@ t
you’ve taking too seriously dude! It’s a BATMAN movie… that is his power, – “blind magic”, like prestige film dammnit!
Its a movie guys..leave it alone!
Selina Kyle was necessary to show you the making of the bat family. Now Bruce has her and Blake working with him which helps close the arch about Bruce not being able to do everything by himself. I think your right about talias roll in the movie, Bane would have been that much of a better villian if he was the true mastermind. Overall in my opinion, as a fan of the comics, Noaln does a fine job staying true to the Batman in the comic books as well as putting his on stamp on the batman universe.
Dear author dude,
Batman is not real. It is a work of fiction. Nolan did it for his happiness. He received appreciation so he made a triology . U can wish u were in his place. But u are not. So shut up and sleep or work on a reboot yourself.