Interview: Oliver Stone on WALL STREET: MONEY NEVER SLEEPS
Talking to Oliver Stone about his latest film, Wall Street: Money Never Sleeps, you quickly realise the veteran director knows his stuff. The son of a Wall Street stockbroker, Stone is clearly very passionately engaged with the films subject matter and, I suppose, hed have to be. After all, the film is a sequel of sorts to the original Wall Street of 1987. But, whilst Stone (himself an investor) has a deep-seated cynicism about capitalism, he admits he was as surprised as anybody by the crisis that started in 2008. Im a passive investor. Im one of the sheep. Unless youre on the inside, on a computer 24/7, you cant really play against these guys theyre smart... Im not part of the fun; Im just a typical, passive jerk! Were all victims everything is hostage to the markets whether you own paintings or real estate... no one can get out alive Were all just sheep going over a cliff. Im sorry to depress you but you but were all fucked! I struggled to follow the one-time Yale student as he peppered his speech with economics jargon but, he insisted, he hasnt always been so interested in the business of economics. My father used to think I was a dummy. I hated economics. But now Im interested in it like Im interested in physics: Im really not that good at physics but its great to read about it. Its fascinating as an abstract but when you play the game its so fucking boring to make money. With these supercomputers it takes so much patience to play. You literally can make half a penny on a trade if you do enough half penny trades, with enough volume, with a supercomputer you can make a big money over the year. But doing it is tedious. Its so insane. My father would turn over six times in his grave. The 87 market was not what he knew; he started in 31 and died in 85, right before the Gekko movie. The impersonalisation and computers then were enormous and the volume was ten times what he dealt with. He was staggered and he stopped. He references the huge gulf between Wall Street of the eighties and the Wall Street of the present day constantly during our meeting. The free market concept got out of hand but this market is beyond anything. Imagine; $100 million in Gekkos time, to buy a company, was big money. Now its peanuts. To get in the big game its a billion dollars, a billion dollars! And thats a thousand million Its the entry level to the club on Wall Street. 
In saying all this it was clear he was really stressing that this latest film is not that most taboo of words in serious cinema: a sequel. If Id wanted to do a sequel, Id have done it for money in the 1990s because there was a whole generation, that have since died, that would have remembered the original. Its kind of stupid to do a sequel 23 years later, isnt it? Instead Stone refers to the latest film as a bookend to an era that started around the time of the original film and which he says is hopefully over. But from the off the director knew he wanted to make a film which was not heavily dependant on its predecessor: It was clear that there was a new market. It is entirely about the events of this era and Gekko is the only link to the past: and hes a completely different character, hes on the bottom looking up. The character of Gordon Gekko which earned Michael Douglas on Academy Award for his performance in the original movie has since become iconic and, despite his sleazy criminality, became something of a hero to many on the real life Wall Street. But whilst the director, who co-wrote the original film, says that this was not his intention (he was a crook) he is philosophical about the characters gaining a cult following: There is always a misunderstanding between the public and the filmmaker. But that doesnt mean it cant be successful. 
However, for Stone, the appeal remains tied to Gekkos status as a villain: something which is made more complicated this time around by virtue of his relationship with his estranged daughter (Carey Mulligan) and her fiancé (Shia Labeouf): He was a one-note shark. I think now hes a far more complex character the original was a morality tale about Charlie Sheen and this is a morality tale about Gordon Gekko. Because he has come full circle, hes been in prison; he has suffered; hes been on the outside looking in, and no one is there to meet him A lot of those guys are cold fish very cold; they have no family interest really, but in this case he has nothing and he wants a connection. Despite Gekkos newfound depth Stone hasnt softened the anti-hero too much. Hes a ruthless motherfucker declared the filmmaker with obvious relish. And Stone was full of praise for Douglas portrayal of the character heralding the actor is a perfect fit with the role: hes a shark. And Michael plays him well because hes got a great face for Gekko: he is Gekko (or hes become Gekko). He has much more family feeling than Gekko, I have to say; hes made a new life start years ago with his new wife and all that. But there is something about Michael: the reptile smile (which I like) and the wavy grey hair. Come on! He does look like a star. It fits him like an old shoe. 
It doesnt take long before Stone, who earlier this year directed his third political documentary (South of the Border), stops talking about the movie directly and slips back into talk of economics and politics: Hedge funds became the biggest players in the 90s and I think the banks felt they were falling behind and all of a sudden they were saying well, this boring what were doing and a lot of the banks got into the hedge funds game, which is to take bigger and bigger risks taking our money it was a pyramid scheme, it was junk. Junk, junk, junk. And they knew it, or at least they should have known. Maybe some of them didnt know what they were selling, but they were selling it by the bundle. Yet, despite Stones reputation for offering forthright political opinions, he insists it is not from a Michael Moore-esque position of anger that he makes his films: Im not outraged. I see this as the natural evolution were going through. Im not throwing rocks at the place because I cant stop it and outrage wont work. He is not deluding himself about the difference his films can make, and accepts that human beings never seem to learn from history: Its horrible. I did three movies about Vietnam but it didnt do a spittles worth of good when it came to going to war again. When asked whether the banks themselves have learned from the events of 2008 Stone is sarcastic: Yeah, they learned a lot: theyre reading through the reform legislation looking for loopholes! Despite his obvious, longstanding interest in history Oliver Stone doesnt consider himself a historian or (as I somewhat pretentiously put it to him) a chronicler the contemporary American experience: Im a dramatist... I love history, but 2008 is a background to the movie. The foreground is six people history is a great background, World Trade Center, W. it has to be a drama that involves you There is a difference between history and drama. 
This acute understanding of the gulf between reality and his position as a filmmaker possibly accounts for his fast-cutting and flashy visual style. It is the aspect of his films for which he is most often criticised (including by this interviewer) but he is not especially concerned by the criticism. Returning again to talk about Wall Street: Money Never Sleeps Stone explained: I made the movie deliberately slick and glossy. Some people criticise that but it doesnt make it worse: its hard to do that stuff and its a throwback to an old style of filmmaking. I love Ross Hunter movies... so I wanted to make it New York. Come on! I just did South of the Border, which was kind of shitty looking, so its nice to be able to do a different style. Stone is not about to change his style, suggesting he hadnt ruled out making a return to the all-out-excesses of his earlier films U-Turn and Natural Born Killers, saying: I may well do another one in that vain I like those kinds of movies very much. I like the anarchic spirit. He also (completely unprovoked) began to talk about the merits of his 2007 directors cut of Alexander; defending that movie with the same boldness and passion that typified the meeting. He was ushered from the room still talking about the merits of Colin Farrell and defending his casting of Irish actors as Macedonians (theyre underdogs). Whatever you think of Oliver Stone it is almost impossible not to respect him for his enthusiasm and the level of engagement he has with his subject matter, whether its popular music, war, politicians, or indeed economics. In an age when filmmakers so often go out of their way to stress how their work is A-political, Stone is outspoken, informed and energetic: motivated by a sincere belief that cinema can be used to transmit ideas (and even ideals), whilst never losing sight of his brief as a storyteller to entertain and excite the viewer. Its a rare combination and, I suppose, a rather refreshing one. I still couldnt put my hand to my heart and say I honestly enjoy his films, but I am certainly pleased that he is out there making them: attracting big budgets and top actors to stories other top directors wouldnt want to touch. 
Wall Street: Money Never Sleeps is in U.K. cinema's now. Check out our review of the movie, HERE.